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+--- Thread: Should a recommended ship list exist? (/showthread.php?tid=9732)
Should a recommended ship list exist? - Akumabito - 06-24-2008
As I see it, this list is pointless because no matter what is decided some people will be allowed to break it and some won't, in a largely arbitrary manner.
Should a recommended ship list exist? - globalplayer-svk - 06-24-2008
akuma, what stop your feeling that all admins and all players are against you ?
and this list is good idea, very good idea.
Should a recommended ship list exist? - Akumabito - 06-24-2008
I never said, nor do I think that all admins and players are against me, in fact I get quite a bit of support from players.
I think Korrd is against me, based on my ban which was excessive and I feel entirely undeserved.
And I feel the faction leaders and their puppets are for the most part against me, I think that's pretty clear.
I think all of that springs from my defense of the indie from faction persecution.
But back to the topic at hand. Explain to me how this list is going to work? Who's going to read it? Only the small fraction of the players who regularly view the forums?
The Admins are not going to take it as gospel, because there are already exceptions. Ands when someone gets fined or banned for a combo that is allowed for someone else who is friendlier with the admisns, what then?
How is this list going to change anything?
Should a recommended ship list exist? - Akumabito - 06-24-2008
' Wrote:Akumabito I showed the list to an admin and was told that he already thought something like that is starting to be needed. I will leave it up to them how "easy" it will be to make an exception.
How does this list fix anything though, if there are exceptions allowed?
The only way this would work is to have the exception rules quantified as well, otherwise it's no different than what we have now, with most people well within reason, a few totally out there and subject to sanction if reported, and then those in between cases that might go either way largely based on your relationship with teh admin or factions.
Should a recommended ship list exist? - Akumabito - 06-24-2008
Again there needs to be a well defined method for exceptions, or they need to be disallowed entirely.
Otherwise exceptions are simply a form of abuse.
If the list was simply yes/no across the board that would acceptable, otherwise those gray area's are just area's some people, mostly factions, can abuse.
Should a recommended ship list exist? - Akumabito - 06-24-2008
' Wrote:I hate to repeat myself, but IMHO:
Yellow ships need some reasonable RP effort and official faction approval (in case they "own" the ship)
Red need excelent RP and admin approval
I completely disagree with the faction approval, that simply gives factions carte blanche to fly ship combo's no one else can.
If a combo is allowed it should be allowed for everyone.
If there is a rp requirement and an admin approval process it needs to be quantified, otherwise this list changes nothing and is just wasted effort at best and just another faction power grab and buddy system overriding rp at worst.
If there is a list it should be black and white, yes and no, across the board.
Really, does your RP require you to fly some uber ship you normally couldn't?
Should a recommended ship list exist? - mjolnir - 06-24-2008
' Wrote:I completely disagree with the faction approval, that simply gives factions carte blanche to fly ship combo's no one else can.
If a combo is allowed it should be allowed for everyone.
You didn't get it. It says that everyone should ask the official faction that makes the ship to be allowed to use it. Both other official faction and independents ask the same way.
(or just inform is they don't require approval - like BAF)
This is the yellow area.
Quote:If there is a rp requirement and an admin approval process it needs to be quantified, otherwise this list changes nothing and is just wasted effort at best and just another faction power grab and buddy system overriding rp at worst.
If there is a list it should be black and white, yes and no, across the board.
Really, does your RP require you to fly some uber ship you normally couldn't?
I think I did quantify how the different categories require different level of approval.
You might notice that official faction are the most limited ones in the chart - since they basically should fly only Green ships.
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Quote:for instance i have a smuggler with no affiliation, could he use an Adv. Train and still work with rp
Generic IDs (smuggler, trader) are Yellow for those ships that are "used by corporations".
This is mostly to point them to use ships that are actually listed as "used by numerous freelancing traders" - like Firefly.
You can use Adv. Train with Smuggler ID, but you better have a reason why you do that. Not just "I bought it".
Should a recommended ship list exist? - Akumabito - 06-24-2008
' Wrote:As for the exceptions, they SHOULD be allowed on the basis of very good roleplay and admin approval.
Now tell me why.
They shouldn't be allowed
1. Out of a sense of fairness. It's fair when everyone is under the same treatment, under the same rules. When you make exceptions, where an admin can put his buddy in a better ship to pvp better, then ban someone else he doesn't like for the same thing, or a faction can fly a ship an indie can't, then you abandon the concept of being fair across the board. Your saying "I should have a pvp advantage because of who I know."
2. Because RP doesn't require it. While it's possible to justify an uber combo with RP, that makes RP less pure. Good RP can deal with flying the same ship everyone with that tag is allowed.
' Wrote:You didn't get it.
I got it completely. The official faction should control people who didn't join and don't want to join, but want to fly that ID.
It's a powergrab and I disagree with it.
Should a recommended ship list exist? - Ichtan - 06-24-2008
As a matter of fact, almost everyone I know who is friends with one or more admins, as I consider myself to be, isn't treated a bit differently. Maybe even a bit tougher in all honesty. Stop whining about unfairness and get back to the topic already, will you? The admins are neutral in nearly all situations and if someone doesn't deserve to have a ship because their RP sucks or isn't good enough, they won't have it.
Should a recommended ship list exist? - Akumabito - 06-24-2008
' Wrote:As a matter of fact, almost everyone I know who is friends with one or more admins, as I consider myself to be, isn't treated a bit differently. Maybe even a bit tougher in all honesty. Stop whining about unfairness and get back to the topic already, will you? The admins are neutral in nearly all situations and if someone doesn't deserve to have a ship because their RP sucks or isn't good enough, they won't have it.
Instead of kissing up, answer my question and two points, and tell me why you should get ships the average guy on the server can't.