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+--- Thread: My thoughts concerning factions/Indies and other such stuff. (/showthread.php?tid=9747)
My thoughts concerning factions/Indies and other such stuff. - Angelfire - 06-24-2008
I do not spend enough time gaming to be an expert at Disco affairs... I do however enjoy the mod and community immensely and simply desire to add value in some way. Please bare that in mind when you read this.
I read the Puck/Praetyre/Nevermore debate with keen interest and had some thoughts of my own...
Indies are cool... My Angelfire character is a freelancer and I had One Eyed Eddie for a while so my thoughts will not be biased in this regard.
BUT I do feel that established player factions should have a 'governing' authority over NPC factions and by default any indies who choose to join those factions. This would force new players to keep their RP in check with the majority of other players in any factions concerned.
When I created the Angelfire saga, it was the typical new player creating himself as the hero of his story but within the established boudaries of the factions involved in the story.
I am a big fan of progress.. I firmly believe that tradition is the enemy of progress... but progress with disregard for eatablished authority is regression. It is simply not worth the cost! To oppose governing authority blatantly is to stimulate synergystic reprisal... people tend to default to the 'sheep' setting when the 'group' speaks out. You end up unecessarily forcing potential friends to make a choice about their alignments... it's really a foolish way to do things! It's one of those battles that only has failure as an outcome.. even if you 'win'.
Unselie's sentiments concerning the majority rule are a bit drastic though... History teaches us that totalitarianism in any form breeds revolutionaries... I prefer to call them reactionaries though as they are the result of an equal or opposite action. Unfortunately, reactionaries who get their own way tend to make extremely insecure leaders in the end... It's best to let a system deal with strong individuals as opposed to 'taking them on' or intimidating them.. it makes things personal which is never a good thing!
SO... what are you rambling on about Angelfire?
Here's my suggestion: (Actually, it's how I thought stuff always worked..hahaha).
The community/Admins approves a Faction.
Admins make it official.
Official Factions are responsible for their ZOI and keep an eye on Indies who join the NPC faction.
Indies are careful to communicate with the 'governing' factions and their authority structures.
If Indies wish to deviate from governing faction modus operandi, they should respectfully communicate their deires to the faction leadership (as one would do in real life..) and let the chips fall where they may.
If the response is out of line with Disco policy or unethical, it should be directly reported to an Admin... This is why forum communication is so important! You can never take back your words when it's in black and white!
As for the 'we don't need mod police' sentiments, it is only those who break the rules that despise law keepers... Those who uphold the law celebrate it's guardians and by default become one!
...just some thoughts.
If you have a response or disagree, please do so respectfully so that we can learn something from your comments. If you don't know what respectful means, google it.. it gets you very far in life! heh heh.
My thoughts concerning factions/Indies and other such stuff. - monsterlancer - 06-24-2008
' Wrote:I do not spend enough time gaming to be an expert at Disco affairs... I do however enjoy the mod and community immensely and simply desire to add value in some way. Please bare that in mind when you read this.
I read the Puck/Praetyre/Nevermore debate with keen interest and had some thoughts of my own...
Indies are cool... My Angelfire character is a freelancer and I had One Eyed Eddie for a while so my thoughts will not be biased in this regard.
BUT I do feel that established player factions should have a 'governing' authority over NPC factions and by default any indies who choose to join those factions. This would force new players to keep their RP in check with the majority of other players in any factions concerned.
When I created the Angelfire saga, it was the typical new player creating himself as the hero of his story but within the established boudaries of the factions involved in the story.
I am a big fan of progress.. I firmly believe that tradition is the enemy of progress... but progress with disregard for eatablished authority is regression. It is simply not worth the cost! To oppose governing authority blatantly is to stimulate synergystic reprisal... people tend to default to the 'sheep' setting when the 'group' speaks out. You end up unecessarily forcing potential friends to make a choice about their alignments... it's really a foolish way to do things! It's one of those battles that only has failure as an outcome.. even if you 'win'.
Unselie's sentiments concerning the majority rule are a bit drastic though... History teaches us that totalitarianism in any form breeds revolutionaries... I prefer to call them reactionaries though as they are the result of an equal or opposite action. Unfortunately, reactionaries who get their own way tend to make extremely insecure leaders in the end... It's best to let a system deal with strong individuals as opposed to 'taking them on' or intimidating them.. it makes things personal which is never a good thing!
SO... what are you rambling on about Angelfire?
Here's my suggestion: (Actually, it's how I thought stuff always worked..hahaha).
The community/Admins approves a Faction.
Admins make it official.
Official Factions are responsible for their ZOI and keep an eye on Indies who join the NPC faction.
Indies are careful to communicate with the 'governing' factions and their authority structures.
If Indies wish to deviate from governing faction modus operandi, they should respectfully communicate their deires to the faction leadership (as one would do in real life..) and let the chips fall where they may.
If the response is out of line with Disco policy or unethical, it should be directly reported to an Admin... This is why forum communication is so important! You can never take back your words when it's in black and white!
As for the 'we don't need mod police' sentiments, it is only those who break the rules that despise law keepers... Those who uphold the law celebrate it's guardians and by default become one!
...just some thoughts.
If you have a response or disagree, please do so respectfully so that we can learn something from your comments. If you don't know what respectful means, google it.. it gets you very far in life! heh heh.
I agree with your post and must say that it is a very good write up.
My thoughts concerning factions/Indies and other such stuff. - Asymptotic - 06-24-2008
Someone pointed out to me very wisely that factions, while yes, a good buffer in the community against rapid progress/upheaval, would eventually start to restrict everything from indies if left unchecked.
My thoughts concerning factions/Indies and other such stuff. - Nevermore - 06-24-2008
I agree, Angelfire.
Factions, official or not, as they are usually made by more experienced players, should set a roleplay example to the newer players. They should actually encourage them to follow their example, give advice when they're willing to learn and help when they're having trouble. But it also requires tolerance/willingness by both parties.
My thoughts concerning factions/Indies and other such stuff. - Angelfire - 06-24-2008
' Wrote:Someone pointed out to me very wisely that factions, while yes, a good buffer in the community against rapid progress/upheaval, would eventually start to restrict everything from indies if left unchecked.
If left unchecked...yes certainly!
It is not that way at all though. As an RP community, we hold one another extremely accountable for our actions.
If it were a single faction running the entire server I would agree with you wholeheartedly but it is not so. There are higher powers of accountability here. The governing faction is not the final authority, our admins are.
My thoughts concerning factions/Indies and other such stuff. - Asymptotic - 06-24-2008
' Wrote:If left unchecked...yes certainly!Yet now and again we see factions pvping players of allied affiliation for doing certain things they don't like...
It is not that way at all though. As an RP community, we hold one another extremely accountable for our actions.
If it were a single faction running the entire server I would agree with you wholeheartedly but it is not so. There are higher powers of accountability here. The governing faction is not the final authority, our admins are.
My thoughts concerning factions/Indies and other such stuff. - Angelfire - 06-24-2008
' Wrote:Yet now and again we see factions pvping players of allied affiliation for doing certain things they don't like...
...and we see those factions sorted out by the community unless the Indy took it upon himself to be the meter of his own justice.
I was explaining the 'two wrongs don't make a right' principle to my daughter the other day, and in the explanation I gave her this advice:
'Never give your enemy legal ammunition! Never break the rules in your quest for justice or revenge. For in the end you will tie the hands of those who wish to protect you and come to your aid!'
The Indy must recognise the authority of the faction and realise that if that authority is misrepresented in any way, it is the person, not the principle, that is in the wrong. Upon respecting the principle and reporting the person, you let the system do the work for you without you having to fight futile battles!
If the system fails you, you take it to the community and the system gets fixed.
None of this is possible if the Indy is reactive in any way.
(OB1 Voice) 'Use the system Luke!'
My thoughts concerning factions/Indies and other such stuff. - gafwmn - 06-24-2008
/signed.
My thoughts concerning factions/Indies and other such stuff. - Reverend Del - 06-24-2008
I think it is simply a matter of communication, which is currently failing, Factions should be more receptive to indies, but just becasue a faction says no, does not mean they are intent on oppressing the indies.
I have recently become rather annoyed at being labelled an anti Indy fascist simply because I have the temerity to lead a faction. The only actions I have taken against Indys I have also enforced on my own faction and on thsoe of other factions within the Outcast Alliance. Unilateral actions for all.
Another point is that despite the words Unselie used her point is being misrepresented and awful lot, the point was it is -possible- for factions to do this, but by and large it is not -probable- that they will.
Also for bearing in mind is the fact that we are all here to have fun, now one mans (womans) fun is another folks nightmare, but we all have to make allowances for what other folks do. Here in Disco part of that allowance is abiding by the existing RP that has been laid down and continued by those who have come before. If you feel that this RP gos against what you wish, then RP your distaste with a character. Do not spread your bile all over the forums simply because you think it might give you a louder voice. This applies to all users, not just indies.
Oh and there is a faction feedback forum for a reason, if you have an issue make a post in there, if there is not thread for the faction you'd like to question, make one.
My thoughts concerning factions/Indies and other such stuff. - song - 06-24-2008
Quote:BUT I do feel that established player factions should have a 'governing' authority over NPC factions and by default any indies who choose to join those factions. This would force new players to keep their RP in check with the majority of other players in any factions concerned.
If the admins instilled some sort of structure as you suggest, I'd have no problem with this.
The problem is when factions take it upon themselves to act as if they are the admins--they aren't--and then try to threaten everyone who doesn't comply for not obeying them like an admin. I don't mean they chose a hard line rp and stick with it--I mean demanding compliance and threatening to spoil the game for those who don't obey.
That's what makes "indies" hostile to clans.
You haven't seen an indie complain because clans will not submit to his view of rp and play as he directs them.
People who demand power with threats should never have it.