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+--- Thread: Rule question for Hawk (/showthread.php?tid=98276)
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Rule question for Hawk - Agmen of Eladesor - 05-08-2013
Hey, Hawk - quick question about a sanction that I have absolutely nothing to do with, but does impact the play of my faction:
Code:
Furthermore, even with a bounty a BHG ID'd ship cannot attack house lawfuls.The BHG| chooses NOT to get involved in the wars between the houses of Sirius (and we have standing orders about this), but unless something has changed from back when Athenian started the S/D and in our RP ever since then - yes, you can. There are in game RP consequences, which is why we don't, but it's never been against the rules.
For example, at one point in time there was a bounty placed upon Kusari military and shipping by the Bretonia government. We took that bounty, shot up some Kusari ships, and ended up with a cute little shooting war with Kusari over Deshima station. Ended up being some nice RP, but it didn't actually violate the rules since it was a lawful bounty.
Also note that we have standing RP that if someone bounties Gallic ships, we'll take it and blow 'em up, because the Gallic government is (a) at war with Sirius and (b) told us no when we asked to work there. So we can and will be attacking house lawfuls - if it's a lawful bounty from someone in Sirius (aka Liberty or Bretonian governments, or the Kusari government in exile).
RE: Rule question for Hawk - Echo 7-7 - 05-08-2013
Perhaps the bounty in question was from an unlawfully aligned poster, or otherwise classified as an unlawful (piratical or terrorist) act in the given House? This is distinct from a bounty pursued as an act of war, which is a lawful bounty contract.
RE: Rule question for Hawk - Agmen of Eladesor - 05-08-2013
(05-08-2013, 04:58 PM)Echo 7-7 Wrote: Perhaps the bounty in question was from an unlawfully aligned poster, or otherwise classified as an unlawful (piratical or terrorist) act in the given House? This is distinct from a bounty pursued as an act of war, which is a lawful bounty contract.
That's why I asked for clarification, because the way Hawk worded it goes against established precedent and RP. Making the flat statement 'cannot attack house lawfuls' covers a LOT of ground.
RE: Rule question for Hawk - Harus - 05-08-2013
The sanction you're thinking of was a BHG Indie that killed someone from an official Rheinland Military faction. I felt that it was a "legit" kill because Liberty does have a bounty on anything Rheinland, and if I recall, the kill was in Liberty space/and or a bordering system. At this point I think the people just got to butthurt about it.
RE: Rule question for Hawk - SeaFalcon - 05-08-2013
(05-08-2013, 05:50 PM)Harus Wrote: The sanction you're thinking of was a BHG Indie that killed someone from an official Rheinland Military faction. I felt that it was a "legit" kill because Liberty does have a bounty on anything Rheinland, and if I recall, the kill was in Liberty space/and or a bordering system. At this point I think the people just got to butthurt about it.
The BHG as a freelancer faction at this moment doesn't have a contract against Rheinland, and by no means is hostile to it either. And thus one cannot shoot them.
Gallia might be a different case at this time, going by the current diplomacy that is going in within Sirius. However at the moment the BHG isn't involved in the war between Rheinland and Liberty, in fact they work for both sides, but no against each other.
RE: Rule question for Hawk - Agmen of Eladesor - 05-09-2013
(05-08-2013, 06:44 PM)SeaFalcon Wrote:(05-08-2013, 05:50 PM)Harus Wrote: The sanction you're thinking of was a BHG Indie that killed someone from an official Rheinland Military faction. I felt that it was a "legit" kill because Liberty does have a bounty on anything Rheinland, and if I recall, the kill was in Liberty space/and or a bordering system. At this point I think the people just got to butthurt about it.
The BHG as a freelancer faction at this moment doesn't have a contract against Rheinland, and by no means is hostile to it either. And thus one cannot shoot them.
Gallia might be a different case at this time, going by the current diplomacy that is going in within Sirius. However at the moment the BHG isn't involved in the war between Rheinland and Liberty, in fact they work for both sides, but no against each other.
This is where we have issues. It's only under our role play that we DON'T get involved with taking bounties against the houses. Not because it's against the rules. There are, or should be, bounties available against the various house militaries from those they're at war against.
Remember, we don't work for the military - we work for the police. Yeah, they both come under the same government - but do they? (LPI - private organization?)
It's a fine line, but an important distinction. And that's what makes this a rules question, as opposed to a role-play with in-game consequences question, based upon the way Hawk phrased it.
There's been some small RP pressure for us to work against a specific house at various times - that's why I want to get this clarified that's it's RP and not rules, in case it comes up again. (Especially when we start shooting Gallic (aka lawful) military and police ships.)
RE: Rule question for Hawk - Hone - 05-09-2013
Which raises another question Agmen; you say the BHG| official faction CHOSE to stay out of the Lib/Rhien war, but what if an indie BHG player decide to sign up for the Lib bounty on RM? Apparently this one didnt sign up before collecting, but what if one did, while the BHG| stayed neutral?
RE: Rule question for Hawk - SummerMcLovin - 05-09-2013
I think (although this may be different) that the house bounty boards would be surprised to have them claiming on other houses, or at least signing up with the specific goal of attacking houses. I assume the BHG would hear about it if RM were attacked (within the rules) by a BHG indy, same as if an LN was using a Mako against them.
I've been of the opinion that a lawful contract is one taken from a lawful entity, the target doesn't necessarily matter. As for this sanction, it was from being hired without a contract for sure, not specifically for shooting that RM (going by my above thoughts).
RE: Rule question for Hawk - Trail - 05-09-2013
(05-09-2013, 01:31 PM)Hone Wrote: Which raises another question Agmen; you say the BHG| official faction CHOSE to stay out of the Lib/Rhien war, but what if an indie BHG player decide to sign up for the Lib bounty on RM? Apparently this one didnt sign up before collecting, but what if one did, while the BHG| stayed neutral?
you still have to follow the RP of the faction you are a part of.
RE: Rule question for Hawk - SummerMcLovin - 05-09-2013
(05-09-2013, 01:40 PM)Trail Wrote: you still have to follow the RP of the faction you are a part of.
Only when you are actually a part of the faction. Indies can do whatever they want that their ID allows, until their official faction starts telling them otherwise where there might be other consequences for them.
An example would be indy Colonials attacking Mollys, which is allowed by the ID. However, CR| is currently neutral with the Mollys, so if they complained to us we'd have a word with the indy in question. Not entirely sure on what I could actually do with Faction Rights though, given the "faction choice" over actual lore.