I want either less powergaming or a bigger chance to participate in it @Devteam

[Snozzz]

Here we go again. It is a sad symptom of Disco life, that is biased and corrupted from all sides and points of view. But would bare saying if it brought about a fair system for all. Some how I don't see that happening. The number of bases (NPC) that some factions get is totaly out of proportion to their ability to construct and support them. Some are made of duct tape, vinegar and brown paper, yet are as resilient as the toughest of constructions. Oh so many are secret and undetectable despite the obvious flaws in the logic. So seeing this comes as no suprise. Perhaps if they actualy had to build them in the form of a POB and support and defend them for a lengthy period of time, befor being awarded NPC status, this coud be resolved. That should come with NPCs fying the necessary supplies to do the task that they all find so boringly demeaning. Also planet based bases of operation shoud be better facilitated. Parts of a planets population should represent some, not all, of a factions membership and a non governmental landing/take off system be implimented to alot of them, again not all, though it must be restricted in vessel size and type (rather like Leeds). That would allow a faction to 'get off the ground' so to speak. The more direct issue of stealing a jump gate or its components and then constructing something from the materials doesn't sound totaly impossible, but, does come over as a totaly impractical a method. Likely the excercise of getting hold of them would be a higher cost than their worth and they would be easier to obtain by other means (cargo theft and corruption etc). So this does smack of power gaming, but whats new about that. Whats sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

[Findarato Veneanar]

That should come with NPCs fying the necessary supplies to do the task that they all find so boringly demeaning.

It should be done by unbumpable NPC barges, like one trip a week, make it a weekly event for the faction to defend( and/or hire escorts) the npc from hostile player factions.

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Signatures may not be bigger than 700x250, 1MB. ~Skorak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EddX9hnhDS4 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6623...%20Sig.png http://i.imgur.com/BpOtRCf.jpg -My stance on all the censorship in this community.
|:~ TBS ~:|:~ LMP ~:|:~ BMF ~:|:~ SW ~:|

[Durandal]

Okay, make no mistake here. This post isn't addressed at Snak3, I don't care about you, you're just looking to insult me, my faction, and the devteam as I already stated.

However some people here are clearly not in the know and deserve a proper explanation for some of the issues that keep being brought up, so as much as it pains me to 'feed the troll' and type this, I know some of you have legitimate concerns, so I'll cover them starting from Snak3's revival of this thread.

We want to know why Lead System Developer and Hellfire leader ( @Durandal ) refuses to find a peaceful solution to this problem, where official roleplay conducted by official faction with oversight by developer team, that reached out to many factions and created lasting effect, is partially contradicted by inwards, solo RP in stories forum that didn't involve a single outside faction and later on was introduced as a system change in a form of missing Bering->Hamburg JumpGate without concern or respect for others.

This roleplay was not done by me. I was not a member of the faction at the time, I wasn't even involved with the devteam at the time. While the idea of salvaging the Bering gate was mine (and was something that had been discussed literal years prior), the execution was the property of @Charos

Now the dates have been set and do infact contradict the Hudson Crisis, which was executed by @Alley who was unaware of the roleplay and unaware that it would or could ever be considered canon. This was also a decision made largely on her own, much to the chagrin of the lead story dev at the time, @Echo 7-7

What's done is done. I see no reasons to split hairs or pander to somebody who wants to make drama out of what is a messy situation which I had little to no involvement in. When I suggested canonizing the story, Teerin accepted it, and I moved on with my life. I completely forgot that the Bering>Hamburg gate was even mentioned in the Hudson Crisis, due to the fact that it played such a small role (just a tiny news snippet).

And while we understand that Operation Anvil was done first, at no point was Ageira contacted by Hellfire to organise something more interesting than just a string of stories' posts. Even when Ageira went ingame to conduct the investigation mission, participants encountered a Hellfire ship as Scientific Report by Oleg Nikolayevich Petrov on Hudson Gate describes, nothing was mentioned by the Lord Commander Locklear ( @Durandal ). No opportunity to make interesting roleplay, involving more than single faction, was seized.

During that encounter I actually did attempt to open up relations with Ageira. The man behind that character, @Jonas Valent claimed that Ageira lead was uninterested in pursuing further roleplay with the Hellfire Legion. Skype seems to have eaten the logs, but I'll ask Jonas to retrieve them.

The base was necessary

Except that it wasn't. There's a Xeno base in Ontario which is a system right next to California. You can also dock in Colorado, Pennsylvania, Kepler, Hudson, Minnesota and obviously Vespucci/Alabama. Hell, Ouray's location is so good that you don't even need to use anything else. At least the location could've been picked better, like somewhere in Magellan close to the Vespucci hole, which actually makes sense inRP.

Actually Antonio, it was. You're a member of the memespeak crew so you certainly know that relations between the HF and the Xenos are at an all time low. If you somehow didn't, apologies, but I find that very hard to believe. To elaborate on this for people less aware of the situation, the Xenos act in a very aggressive manner towards foreigners (duh), which the Hellfire Legion isn't exactly cool with. We're even less cool with their occassional hostile actions against Libertonian corporations carrying foreign goods. The HF has nearly had their docking rights on Xeno bases revoked several times since they gained them in 2010, and the situation has only been getting worse. Cutting all ties with the Xenos is not something I particularly want to do, but any Xeno player worth his s a l t will tell you that it is a very real possibility.

With that out of the way, "you can dock on other bases" is still a very poor strawman argument. Would you ask me to delete GC bases because they can dock on Blood Dragon ones, or LWB and Bundschuh bases because they can dock on Hessian ones? The Hellfire Legion and Coalition are the only factions in the game that lacked bases outside of their home systems at the time. Now only the Coalition does, which will be remedied soon. No faction should be limited to only having bases in one system, ever.

As for a location that makes more sense in roleplay, I don't even know what to say to that. Unlawful and lawful factions have bases all over the place. Hesperia's location makes no more or less sense than Ouray, which can actually be seen from the tradelane and was discovered in vanilla.

Now to the construction of the base itself. I see people here requesting that new bases have roleplay behind them, or require some sort of game mechanic in order to be constructed. This is completely and totally unprecedented. Could you really look me in the eye and tell me that your statements here are not about the Hellfire Legion, when several new bases have been added in the Rheinland update such as an LWB base in Frankfurt and a Bundschuh base in New Hampshire? No roleplay was done behind these. No gameplay was done behind these. They were implemented because these factions needed and/or requested bases in these locations, and there's no argument over that at all.

it's about HF getting a BC

The Judicator. What can I even say about the Judicator? Do a thread search for HFBC, HF Battlecruiser, whatever. Every single thread you find will be me and Alley telling you that Alley added it, I did not request it, I was HOMELESS at the time, and I would rather have had a heavy cruiser than a battlecruiser. The community's vitriol on this topic is so consistently misdirected it makes me wonder if people actually bother to read, or just see my name in yellow and decide to flip out when they remember the HF has one.

So that's that, I hope that clears up whatever misconceptions there were, and though I'd like to believe it will, I think the majority of people here are simply interested in going after me for the yellow name and the non vanilla faction I lead. If you want to prove me wrong and say "Hey, sorry, that was a really informative post. Thanks for taking the time to explain things.", it would really make my day.

~ Justin

[Sylvie557]

For me the point about the base is not that every new base should have to require prior RP behind it but rather that this is kinda a significant advancement for the Hellfire Legion and should have honestly had some prior RP.

it represents the first hellfire owned base being constructed not only outside of Vesppucci but also inside of Liberty core space.

Also about the Xenos relations, disco diplomacy is all about give and take. You may not agree with the Xenos ways but them being your only safe haven in Liberty means you kinda of have to go against your factions morals and look the other way. It adds some depth to the faction and could have even been turned into the RP for the construction of the base. Instead the base just shows up to save the day theoretically making it so the HF have less incentive to compromise to the Xenos.

Like I said, I don't have a dog in this fight and not really mad just personally feel like there was a lot of potential lost that could have added more depth to the Hellfire.

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|| Aoi Iseijin |Aoi || Junker Marauders JM|- || MEMES- ||

[Durandal]

For me the point about the base is not that every new base should have to require prior RP behind it but rather that this is kinda a significant advancement for the Hellfire Legion and should have honestly had some prior RP.

it represents the first hellfire owned base being constructed not only outside of Vesppucci but also inside of Liberty core space.

Also about the Xenos relations, disco diplomacy is all about give and take. You may not agree with the Xenos ways but them being your only safe haven in Liberty means you kinda of have to go against your factions morals and look the other way. It adds some depth to the faction and could have even been turned into the RP for the construction of the base. Instead the base just shows up to save the day theoretically making it so the HF have less incentive to compromise to the Xenos.

Like I said, I don't have a dog in this fight and not really mad just personally feel like there was a lot of potential lost that could have added more depth to the Hellfire.

I don't disagree, and I actually had a talk on teamspeak with @Omicega (who is attempting to revive the XA-) about the future of the Hellfire Legion with the Xenos. We both agreed that it's an interesting dynamic and hostilities aren't the way to go. We do still benefit hugely from their help, and I think the relationship adds as much depth and compromise to the Xeno side of things as it does with the Legion.

As for a base outside of Vespucci being a major step, I'm not trying to powergame my faction here but we are supposed to have a little more manpower and technical prowess than the Xenos, Bundschuh, GC, or Gaians. All of which have bases in at least two core house systems. What's the big deal, really? We missed out on an opportunity for some cool roleplay, but I don't see it as being a huge issue that it didn't happen.

[Teerin]

One current goal of the planned update packages is to provide better base placement for every faction. This not only means giving factions with stations in only one system some external facilities, but also giving all Gallic groups outposts beyond that House, and lending a hand to factions with only a handful of bases and poor spread. No matter how many allies a faction has at the moment, limited base options have proven time and again to harm to faction activity and opportunities.

The HF Legion are by no means special. And yeah, as with every other faction leader, I do encounter some bias when discussing future progression for them with @Durandal. However, the other three story developers ( @jammi, @LunaticOnTheGrass, myself) keep things in check and from getting out of hand because we debate on the logistics of every change, even plenty of times to the disappointment of Justin's HF aspirations. Or Lunatic for Bundschuh, myself for Corse, and Jammi for Bretonia. We try to keep ourselves balanced.

Official player group roleplay is great, but doesn't always have to be done for new stations or if the NPC faction lore needs advancement. While official roleplay and NPC lore are interdependent, they are indeed different as well. I always encourage players and leaders to conduct roleplay for upcoming changes, but A) there's not always enough time, B) the station infocard usually contains sufficient lore about it, and C) sadly I have zero way to enforce the roleplay requirement without being totally awful to them.

I appreciate the feedback here. I think Justin covered the basics of what happened with the Hudson Crisis and the Judicator. Issues with the former case, where the storyline was not done under one roof, have since been corrected in the Dev Team so that a more continuous, cohesive story can exist.

As a bit of a correction to the Ageira post, @Durandal is only the acting systems department head, as such is needed, but it's temporary because he actually doesn't want the full position. And @Yber, he hasn't "taken over" either. Also sure, I'll freely admit that he could be more of a people person, but so could many people and we all have our flaws.