The Justification of Roleplay

[casero]

Oh, ok, but how do you propose to enforce the quality?

[pchwang]

Oh, ok, but how do you propose to enforce the quality?

Please read the posts that I have already made before posting. Thanks.

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[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<

Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?

[Xoria]

Refresh yourself on the definition and use of hyperbole. It is but a figure of speech, not meant to be taken literally.

I'm not a mind reader, and I took what you said at face value. You presented your post as a series of arguments, not as a literary satire in which one would expect figurative language. I expect that you are no novice to debate, and should know that the affirmative's case depends on his ability to demonstrate a Harm in the status quo. Your description of the Harm is so over-the-top that it is ridiculous. In fact, by using it you failed to establish the existence of any Harm at all.

If you have a problem with my opinions, whether they are extreme or too right-sided, say so directly instead of picking at the way I write. Prejudice me based on my thoughts, not how I convey my thoughts.

The way one convey's his thoughts is integral to interpreting the meaning of those thoughts. I can say the exact same words while screaming and whispering, and the method of conveying them results in wildly different interpretations. You consciously chose your words; it's not up to the rest of us to reformulate a poor argument into a solid one when you chose not to do so yourself out of some sense of lyrical flair.

I'm really surprised that you of all the people here are more concerned about what has been written than what is being conveyed.

You just used synonyms to apparently describe opposites. How can anyone know what you are trying to say without paying attention to the way you say it and the words you use to describe it? Again, no mind readers here.

For those of you posting empty posts such as the quoted one in this thread, think about what is exactly going on here.

To which I quote yourself back to you :
"Prejudice me based on my thoughts, not how I convey my thoughts."
So you've gone from relying on exaggeration to make a point, to using insults in an attempt to discredit those who point out your exaggeration. You just committed the very same sin that you accused me of. But don't fret; I don't grant anyone the power to offend me, no matter how hard they try. I learned that secret a long time ago.

You want to know why I protested? Because I categorically assume that people offer up their strongest arguments when attempting to persuade, and exaggeration is a universal sign of a position's intellectual bankruptcy and/or the rhetorical laziness of the debater.

Rather than submitting such an exaggeration as the foundation of your argument, how about actually demonstrating practical negative effects of the rule you object to?
What stellar roleplaying is eliminated by requiring a sentence before attacking?
What opportunities for player interaction are infringed upon by requiring verbal interaction prior to hostile gun-play?
What gameplay experience is enhanced by total comm silence prior to attacks?
How is anyone's experience harmed by being required to announce an attack?
How is anyone's experience enhanced by encouraging unannounced attacks?

Of course, it's easier and simpler to take the easy way out of proclaiming that the sun is on fire as the basis for your position while directing a fire hose at anyone who points out how ridiculous your statement is.

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[casero]

I did read it before I posted, but besides of asking the admins to enforce the quality of RP in some way, I didn't see anything else.

We judge actors and actresses by how well they act. We judge them by the intensity of their performance, their humor, their pretend-honesty, the stories that they tell.

It's not that simple, who is able to judge the performance of MY character? Who is gonna tell me what my character should do? (in the range of things that my character can do due to his IFF, ID, etc)

[pchwang]

To continue your argument about my grammatical usage, hyperbole is used to stress something. In this case, I was stressing the fact that the worth of RP is being destroyed by the rule in place. You state that this argument is entirely flawed, criticizing my entire post because of the fact that I used something that you claim is evident of "intellectual bankruptcy" and "laziness."

Unfortunately, most of us are not you. Most of us understand the difference between a figurative expression and a literal expression. Most of understand the fact that hyperbole is rarely used literally, as you say, "in face value."

Then, you fixate on my word usage. I convey my thoughts through writing. You read what I write, you interpret what I attempt to convey. There is a difference.

If you have a problem with me, then take it up with me via the PMs. Tell me to edit my posts. Attempting to down a thread simply because you don't like the way someone is arguing it is not the way to go.

Rather than submitting such an exaggeration as the foundation of your argument, how about actually demonstrating practical negative effects of the rule you object to?
What stellar roleplaying is eliminated by requiring a sentence before attacking?
What opportunities for player interaction are infringed upon by requiring verbal interaction prior to hostile gun-play?
What gameplay experience is enhanced by total comm silence prior to attacks?
How is anyone's experience harmed by being required to announce an attack?
How is anyone's experience enhanced by encouraging unannounced attacks?

Have you even read my post? Because I don't think you have. The post is not about rule violations, it's not about people breaking rules before RPing properly. The post is about the fact that the current rule in place cheapens the RP that everyone here is performing.

It has nothing to do with the rules or the experiences of other players, Xoria. This goes beyond that. It's the principle of the matter. What I'm angered over is the fact that this rule is essentially asking us to quantify something that should not be quantified. The only negative effect that I care about is that it cheapens the RP the players here perform. As a result, of course, it would have not address many of the points that you have raised.

The only reason why the enforcement of rules has even been brought up is because others have asked.

Of course, since you did not read anything in my first post, you would not have noticed my backing for my arguments:

Roleplay is, in many ways, an art form. It is, for a lack of a better term, acting. We do not judge actors by how much they perform, and we most certainly do not judge them by how verbose they are. We do not judge them by the amount of time they stand in the spotlight. We do not judge them by how long they can pace around on the stage.

We judge actors and actresses by how well they act. We judge them by the intensity of their performance, their humor, their pretend-honesty, the stories that they tell.

When we roleplay, we give up ourselves for a moment, and let our minds to be taken by others who roleplay with us.

The ABOVE is the reason why the current rule should be revised.

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[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<

Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?

[tansytansey]

@NightHawk: The admins will determine the quality of roleplay. The community has entrusted them to do so in a fair and unbiased manner by allowing them to become admins. I trust them to do so, and as BaconSoda mentioned earlier, I hope that the rest of the community is able to trust them to do so.

And then people will complain that they were judged unfairly. People will report unjustly. It is far more complicated thaN the present little problem.

This is being discussed on the Admin forums currently, it does seem to have worked to an extent, and has generally improved the silent gankings, which is what it was intended to do.

Ain't that the truth. When I first played, and made my first pirate character, I just brought my Sabre and was headed back to NY. Jumped through the gate to NY and was destroyed a couple seconds later by two Gunboats without a word. Now I can roleplay sometime for 10s of minutes before an engagement, sometimes an engagement never occurs and both parties part peacefully.
Now, I actively refuse to fight people who don't offer me any RP.

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|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Dusty Lens]

Before I head on out the door I'd like to drop the following DL wisdom:

Chilax. It aint all Hemmingway, it aint all lulzerz engage.

Sometimes the rules are there to serve as a foundation of encouragement to move folks who might not otherwise put in the effort in a good direction, this'd be one of them. Minimum standards are a shame, but they get the job done at times; just compare circa now to circa before, the difference is there.

[Asymptotic]

Admins already deal with everything else subjectively, and it seems to work. Why not qualify roleplay?

[looqas]

I see the point elgato is trying to raise. I also understand how difficult it is to qualify roleplay. If you can't quantify a rule then it will lead to admins' subjective point of view of what is good roleplay.

And people already raised a point that while this is an English speaking server a very large part of the players have hard time coming up with a response in understandable English in the 3 seconds that is usually given in the server before sending them to kingdom to come. And Igiss with the admin team has said time and again that the server will stay public and the more players the better. So trying to make the game to the point of it being un-playable for many players is not fair.


Good RP skills inevitably require a good command of the English language. And you just can't write a rule about the quality of the English you must have. What makes this discussion even harder is the level of the language people use here and in-game. I have to read and re-read what xoria and you are arguing there so eloquently and I have to say that I'm rather well versed in your native language. Don't get me wrong, I truly enjoy reading well formed and written text instead of one liners with abbreviations and such. But arguing your case should not be based on the eloquence of your words.

All things combined I think it's impossible to qualify someone's RP and put it in a rule.

In page 2 of this thread someone said something that caught my attention. How about answer - reply kind of approach?

If it where me calling the shots I'd put an ADMIN NOTICE something like this:

You are required to have "/setmgs 1 I'll give you #t 10 seconds to respond or halt before I open fire."


But that's not workable either, so what's the solution? There is none really.

I consider the bread and butter of the server to be the "one liner RPers" and good RP experience like a good dessert. Play with everybody, but have the great RP sessions with those you know are capable of giving you the satisfaction that makes you log in tomorrow and day after that. And you good RPers, don't develop an attitude towards those that have hard time expressing their thoughts in English. Your efforts at RP here as well in game can be enjoyed also by them. Usually people understand more than they can they can express. And well written English RP gives them a good role model to strive towards.

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Flying under radar.