Ore Changes, the problems with it.

[E X O D I T E]

Honestly, the biggest problem with the Ore changes is that it looks exactly like the "lol, cut systems to force interaction" meme that swept the devteam a few years ago when they decided to cut the Discovery from Discovery Freelancer in favor of pushing traders into the same few routes to please the pirate players. Except this time, now my piratical self knows with 100% certainty exactly where that other trader will be.

The best Ore fix would be to offer the old sellpoints back at 80-90% credits/sec. That way, connectivity isn't completely pooched (see: Pscrap to Valetta/Tripoli or Alabama is a lot closer to Xeno Relics or Iridium Ore/Azurite Gas than Pscrap to FP9 then 120k to the nearest ore field.)

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[SnakThree]

As someone who has been trading regular commodities for most of the time, not having miner friends to fill me up, I can calmly claim that most of the complaints about ore economy rework is moot.

RP opportunities are not lost due to removed routes, you can trade regular commodities, including "refined metal" - instead of Gold Ore to Liberty, get Gold, etc.

Ore economy has been ruined ever since POB introduction, allowing passive and single-player experience to collect it from POBs. Previously it was all about filling it on transports on the spot, face-to-face. Now it is just about finding POB that has ore for your ship.

So what that few routes are gone? Adapt to it. Your most favorite route happened to be most profitable and very RP for you? Maybe that's just a stretch for you to feel good about your choice to run best route?

I managed to survive losing occasional Gold Ore run to Liberty for my Ageira Stegodon. I'll just go back to trading something that makes more sense for Ageira to be importing back to Liberty rather than choosing only most profitable ore routes.

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[LaWey]

*was edited to add snak3 points*

Honestly, the biggest problem with the Ore changes is that it looks exactly like the "lol, cut systems to force interaction" meme that swept the devteam a few years ago when they decided to cut the Discovery from Discovery Freelancer in favor of pushing traders into the same few routes to please the pirate players. Except this time, now my piratical self knows with 100% certainty exactly where that other trader will be.

Indeed. And since people not forced to make money solely by trade, that meme approach looks totally weird.

The best Ore fix would be to offer the old sellpoints back at 80-90% credits/sec. That way, connectivity isn't completely pooched (see: Pscrap to Valetta/Tripoli or Alabama is a lot closer to Xeno Relics or Iridium Ore/Azurite Gas than Pscrap to FP9 then 120k to the nearest ore field.)

I will add to this - short routes cutting actually was a right step. I would first try to set more stolen goods hubs on base of old fences/unlawful consumers hubs, which going along of new routes, looking that they not extremely short + provide in total equal possibilities to sell stole cargo for all pirates.

As someone who has been trading regular commodities for most of the time, not having miner friends to fill me up, I can calmly claim that most of the complaints about ore economy rework is moot.

RP opportunities are not lost due to removed routes, you can trade regular commodities, including "refined metal" - instead of Gold Ore to Liberty, get Gold, etc.

So what that few routes are gone? Adapt to it. Your most favorite route happened to be most profitable and very RP for you? Maybe that's just a stretch for you to feel good about your choice to run best route?

I managed to survive losing occasional Gold Ore run to Liberty for my Ageira Stegodon. I'll just go back to trading something that makes more sense for Ageira to be importing back to Liberty rather than choosing only most profitable ore routes.

All of this true, and its exactly where problem is: those who liked to combine money farming and trading RP for some affected factions, now will choose mission farming, what isnt promote pirate-trader interactions. So question - and why that was needed?

Ore economy has been ruined ever since POB introduction, allowing passive and single-player experience to collect it from POBs. Previously it was all about filling it on transports on the spot, face-to-face. Now it is just about finding POB that has ore for your ship.

Not addressing PoB - related ore mining/distribution is another problem why this rework just ducttape.

[Sabru]

I generally agree. I always found it odd that the economy was effectively "ore, ore, ore, ore and ore" for a long long time and completely disregarded the potentials for general commodities trading, from finding new trade chains that take you round sirius (one of the obvious being the house capitals alcohol route) to the simple RP potential of traveling far with different commodities and the chance of running into various factions, from lawful to unlawful and everything in between, and either having general interaction or trying to talk your way out of being pirated.

I cant speak from the angle of pirates nor do i know exactly what should be done but, in my opinion, something needs to be balanced somehow so that while ore remains profitable, it is not the be-all and end-all to trading for money. The only thing i can think of is "lengthening the chain" like, for example, you take mineral ore (like gold or something) to a "refinery" buy midpoint which pays decently (though not to the current ore levels) but also sells the "refined" product (gold bars, to follow the example) which can then be on-traded to a final sellpoint somewhere else with perhaps 1 or 2 different commodities that can be traded back.

The whole journey, ideally, would pay a similar amount in total to current ore trading but encompasses more action than just point-to-point movement from field to buypoint. Unlawfuls could even be given decently paying sellpoints of their own to encourage reasonable cargo piracy as an alternative to cash piracy.

I'm not sure if any of this would even work but just thought i'd float my 'layman's' idea on the disco economy

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[Lemon]

Normal commodities do work I agree
The way I explored Sirius was taking the good ol' 20 million train with a really fun turnate, firing up companion and just go fromsystem to system looking for fun high $/hr that made me zigzag through the galaxy.

That does become a bit tedious after a while and you just want to make money as a newer player for shiny toys though

That bering - NL route was circular point A point B waypointable, predictable, with stocked POBS on both sides
Which was good for me and pirates alike -many just logged to my annoyance and always knew where to camp and find me and that I will run the shorter route multiple times

I will be testing the new routes on pirates when the current event is over but first expectation is to meet targets a bit less frequently than before, only because the routes are longer


Edit: I'd say work with Bristol who not only always stock and tweak prices, but also publish a beginners guide for trading with their routes

And make one of the runs a short, circular connecting waypointable one that's easy to understand for beginners, and very predictable for pirates who can just log and get interactions easily in the same spots

[Hokan]

Edit: I'd say work with Bristol who not only always stock and tweak prices, but also publish a beginners guide for trading with their routes

And make one of the runs a short, circular connecting waypointable one that's easy to understand for beginners, and very predictable for pirates who can just log and get interactions easily in the same spots

While writing the post I spoke to the Bristol guys. Of the main players they all had a problem with this new system and their views are, I hope, are mostly reflected in the points raised.

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[Lord Helmchen]

hi when I started paying I really enjoyed Mining, a friend and I made Convoys and earned the ships we want like this as Junkers moving scrap to the aland shipyard in Nottingham. well, recently I thought why dont you get a Junker and start mining again on your own. my friend decided to leave the game a while ago. well as I flew the usual route I was surprised to see that the Premium Scrap is right now only 250 Credits worth. and this everywhere so why should I fly around when I get the same Price Everywhere, the Convoys we flew where Often Robed by Pirates what lead to Realy good RP. I tested this also with Military Salvage it was nearly the same. maybe it is just a Bug and will be fixed in the Next Update what I really hope. but when it is how the new System Works then mining had died for me in the future, and I will stay a Trader that is Profitable enough and brings enough RP Potential for me.

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[Karst]

hi when I started paying I really enjoyed Mining, a friend and I made Convoys and earned the ships we want like this as Junkers moving scrap to the aland shipyard in Nottingham. well, recently I thought why dont you get a Junker and start mining again on your own. my friend decided to leave the game a while ago. well as I flew the usual route I was surprised to see that the Premium Scrap is right now only 250 Credits worth. and this everywhere so why should I fly around when I get the same Price Everywhere, the Convoys we flew where Often Robed by Pirates what lead to Realy good RP. I tested this also with Military Salvage it was nearly the same. maybe it is just a Bug and will be fixed in the Next Update what I really hope. but when it is how the new System Works then mining had died for me in the future, and I will stay a Trader that is Profitable enough and brings enough RP Potential for me.

Premium Scrap:
PRIMARY - Omicrons - Omicron Theta - Freeport 9 - Zoners - $11 882
PRIMARY - Gallia - Ile-de-France - Sarcelles Shipping Facility - IDF - $12 097

FENCE - Gallia - Ile-de-France - Beaumont Base - Brigands - $10 348
FENCE - Gallia - Orleanais - Evreux Research Station - Enclave - $10 426

Military Salvage:
PRIMARY - Omicrons - Omicron Theta - Freeport 9 - Zoners - $10 524
PRIMARY - Gallia - Ile-de-France - Sarcelles Shipping Facility - IDF - $12 604

FENCE - Gallia - Ile-de-France - Beaumont Base - Brigands - $9 922
FENCE - Gallia - Orleanais - Evreux Research Station - Enclave - $9 142

The Discovery Mining Guide is up to date on buyers and their prices, you are encouraged to read it if you don't know where to bring an ore.

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[Lemon]

Edit: I'd say work with Bristol who not only always stock and tweak prices, but also publish a beginners guide for trading with their routes

And make one of the runs a short, circular connecting waypointable one that's easy to understand for beginners, and very predictable for pirates who can just log and get interactions easily in the same spots

While writing the post I spoke to the Bristol guys. Of the main players they all had a problem with this new system and their views are, I hope, are mostly reflected in the points raised.

Yeah you don't need all routes like that at all, just literally 1-2 in game and the rest be as they are with higher profits

So there's one fast one when an indie can log without scrambling miners on discord,and that pirates that don't do metagame shenanigans with multiple characters and playe list scanning can just log and get interactions on

[Hokan]

Doubling the sell points, as there is only around 2 per lawful/unlawful might go some way to deal with the railroading issues.

As Karst said that their balance disregards the inconvenience of role-play. Adding a few more shouldn't be a terrible problem at this point.

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