While it may be a faction right to request it, it doesn't mean that it will be done automatically. Equally, not only when official factions demand it will it be done. A reputation change may come about because of sanctions, from observations made of roleplay interactions or any of a whole variety of reasons.
To answer your shouty questions:
Is this or is this not a right of an offical faction?
Yes, it is.
Can we expect unoffical factions to be able to use this in the future?
Who can tell what the future holds. Not for the time being. Unlikely though. Unofficial factions tend to be unofficial for a reason.
Can we get a list of factions that are unoffical but are considered quasi offical so we know which ones have access to these rights?
No, because there isn't one. There is a list of official factions around here somewhere, Maybe that would be the place to start, and use a process of elimination.
If a person has made themselves an enemy of an entire faction and is in need of a rep hack, wouldn't the offical groups request it? Why are unoffical groups being allowed to?
The concern here seems to be someone else apparently exercising a power that others mistakenly believe to be exclusively theirs. This is the key misconception. If the admin team observes a character behaving in a particular way, then we have and will continue to adjust peoples' reputations to reflect that behaviour. Or to put it another way, a player can threaten to have someone's rep changed as much as they want. Carrying through that threat is another thing.
For rep changes, only administrators can do it. And even then it needs to be warranted, and something requiring the somber, solemn and serious meditation and reflection required of determining a player's docking rights on stations in a fictional universe.
Now, you can't reasonably expect to threaten to blow up a station and not have that entire faction hostile to you. There are consequences to in game actions. Most of which is moot; the right is intended to reinforce the idea that official factions determine faction diplomacy, ie a roleplay tool, and not a stick with which to beat other players.
' Wrote:Whether or not you came out and directly said it doesn't make a difference. You are smart enough to know that doing that would put yourselve in a bad posistion. You keep making claims that the Zoners as a whole will do something when you speak only for yourself.
I never denied doing it either. You never asked me until a week after the incident when the Joker brought up the issue, asking why, not who. When it was asked, I responded and admitted to it. Not once did I try to hide it.
Also, please quote where I've spoken on behalf of Zoners as a whole. Preferably in a new thread so this one is not cluttered even more. I eagerly await some evidence to back up the baseless claims made all week.
' Wrote:You can bitch about this being a Zoner issue all you want. The fact stands when this right was announced Corsairs also brought up this exact topic. Many players felt it would be abused. We now have proof that it can be abused if you know the right people and are in the right position to do so.[/size]
How was it abused? It had nothing to do with knowing people. Yes, I have friends who are admins. That doesn't mean they'll do something for me just because they are my friends, nor would I ask them to do something for me just because they are my friends. I personally believe integrity as one of the most important traits of a person, so it makes no sense for me to take an action that is against my ideals. I asked Cannon if I was allowed to make this request. The template asked for the name of the 'faction', so I wasn't sure if CoZ could or not. I asked, he said make a note about it, and submit and the admins would discuss it. I don't know what was said, but apparently they believed either we had the ability to do so, or the Joker had done enough that the rep change was warranted regardless of who brought it up.
Also, insinuating this was done because I know people on the admin team is ludicrous when there are as many people who don't like me as do on the team.
' Wrote:I twisted no ones words. Dab has in SKYPE a number of times threatened to have Saronsen's rep changed. The fact that Dab managed to get Jokers rep changed without a word to the offical Zoner faction leaders or without consent from the majority of the Council only shows it was done due to Dab's posistion. Any normal player would have been told no, to ask a offical faction to do it.
I threatened Saronsen after he said he'd just keep his Juggernaut if the Zoners decided to take it from him. Keep in mind, this is what the Zoner FACTIONS wished to do. I instead took a more relaxed approach and put him on probation. If the Council of Zoners also called for his ship to be given away, or him set hostile to Zoners if he refused, then we'd have all three factions and the Council asking for the same thing. Any of the four could have done it. I would not have said we could rep him hostile if the factions didn't make it clear they were willing to take that approach themselves already.
On the Joker issue several people in the Council had already stated that he is hostile and that they would attack him if they see him. He was already hostile to the Council at that point. I then requested a rep fix to make him hostile to the Zoner NPCs as well considering he was threatening to blow up Zoner stations. This seemed a logical choice. I didn't make that choice 'because I could', I made it because it was the logical outcome of such a threat. When you yell 'bomb' on an airplane, you're going to jail.. The cop doesn't just stand around and glare at you until the bomb actually goes off. Several players, Zoner and non-Zoner, admin and non-admin, have said this to you already.. The admins didn't make the decision just because I asked, but because the roleplay the Joker was using justified the decision.
Also, you've been twisting my words since this whole thing started, once you got into the ZA you've been doing so. Take a look at all your posts, then look at mine with an unbiased and unprejudiced view. As McNeo said; You are taking what I say the way you want to take it, not taking it the way I meant it.
Alright since some of the Admins are on different pages here. I'll use their words then ask again.
' Wrote:The answer to that is clearly no. Extraordinary circumstances with merit might be considered at any time,
though this is not going to turn into a 'make him red fest' for factions, on just a whim.
Hoodlum
If a person has done something that deserves a rep hack, it would be an extraordinary circumstance. So why is it that official factions have that right? I mean, they should only be using it in extraordinary circumstances. Yet, you are saying that if someone else not of a official faction requests it and it is an extraordinary circumstance, it may be granted.
My point is. This right should only be used in a last ditch extraordinary circumstance and the admin team felt it should be the official factions doing it. So why is said admin team allowing others to use the right in the same manner? Don't feed me the BS that the Admins decided to do it. It was requested by one player without as much as a word to the members of the unofficial faction he represents, not leads.
' Wrote:The Council of Zoners was at the time the general governing body of the Zoners (and considered a quasi-official faction), official and unofficial factions, and the player they had requested be made hostile did indeed deserve it as per visible forum and in-game role play.
The charged player didn't disagree (and was in-fact expecting it), and the result seems to have benefited both parties.
You are admitting that the admin team is slow when it comes to what is going on on this server? The split had occurred more than a month before Joker's rep was hacked. I highly doubt this and consider this to be a cover story for a mistake on the admins part by allowing a single person to use a faction right. It was done because of who he is and who he is friends with. I am done with it, I got my answer and know exactly how the server operates now.
Though, I feel we have I answer and most likely this won't happen again or if it does the admins won't admin they let a single player do it. They will say they did it because, as admins, they can.
Wall of text. When you get your ego under control, perhaps the players you have driven off will come back. The fact that half of the people in the CoZ dislike you because you keep doing things without asking them speaks even more of you.
I could careless if you are asking for proof. Go look it up yourself. It is on these forums. The fact that you and your ego have ran people off the server and make the game no fun for a number of other people still playing here is more than enough proof. Again, crying for proof of this won't be answered, you do that as an avoidance tactic. Its old, grow up and learn to acknowledge your flaws.
That wasn't addressed only to you. The entire debate fest from all sides is getting old and redundant. We've heard all the arguments in more than enough threads.
Point is, even if theoretically speaking, Dab used his ties with the Admins to do him a favor -- I don't care.
The ability for factions to request that players reputations are adjusted is not related to extraordinary circumstances. It is a method to provide role-play consequences for players actions.
As to are CoZ a faction; yes/no/maybe - pick one. The CoZ are granted some of the rights and responsibilities of a faction. This is related to the historical position of the council. The admin team may choose to change this at some point in the future.
Quote:It was done because of who he is and who he is friends with. I am done with it, I got my answer and know exactly how the server operates now.
Yes this is true. Dab as leader of the CoZ requested this and given that at the moment the council is considered to have some of the rights of a faction it was done.
As to the accusation that "It was done because of who he is and who he is friends with.". This is groundless. If ANYONE thinks they have a tie to the admins that can be used to influence decisions because they are friends, then that tie will get cut. We would make a point of doing so.
Proud member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
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