Confession time

[Doria]

"Boohoo, I am not the super-zoner clever being I thought I was! People don't like my inflated ego enough! BooHoo, gonna keep complaining and whinning about anything those folks say, until I get bored and then I go brag to some other folks..."

[moebus]

I completely agree that non-military house factions should not have access to battleships (the Order and the Council should still have a few of them, access at least via SRP). About Zoners, I think it would be great if:

- Nephilim would be turned into a real colony ship (biodomes, armor and cargo but almost no battleship guns)
- Aquilon is turned into an armed Liner (armor and cargo but almost no battleship guns)
- Maybe an armored transport would make sense too (I know that it's quite opposite to the concept of Zoner Whale, but diplomacy is not really effective against nomads in the omicrons, so it might justify the use of armor and guns)

Of course, all of these ships could also be used as scientific vessels (just mention on the infocard that these ships can be converted)

ps: I don't mind it's flood

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[Gytrash]

I completely agree that non-military house factions should not have access to battleships (the Order and the Council should still have a few of them, access at least via SRP). About Zoners, I think it would be great if:

- Nephilim would be turned into a real colony ship (biodomes, armor and cargo but almost no battleship guns)
- Aquilon is turned into an armed Liner (armor and cargo but almost no battleship guns)
- Maybe an armored transport would make sense too (I know that it's quite opposite to the concept of Zoner Whale, but diplomacy is not really effective against nomads in the omicrons, so it might justify the use of armor and guns)

Of course, all of these ships could also be used as scientific vessels (just mention on the infocard that these ships can be converted)

ps: I don't mind it's flood

Fantastic idea, never going to accept it as long as it's only the removal of one set of caps though, then it's a big blow to that faction's ability to project power.

[Gytrash]

Entertaining how this thought so subtly eluded you when you so piercingly opted for having Order's caps removed solely due to the fact that they antagonize Zoners.

Note I said, "They can't fuel them so they can't fly them." it would give the order some incentive to roleplay something other than "ololol we are superpowered sky fakshun with lolcaps and such" perhaps they could... search for an alternate supplier and set that up inRP?

[Jinx]

@Gytrash:

Your main argument appears to be the unilateral removal / replacement - following by a perceived inability to project power with a significantly weakened shipline.

You are of course correct. - a "fair" solution would be a wide-swept removal or revision of fringeworld assets but i have tgree points to make about that.

- it is considerably more work to change every faction. - and while it may not be fair, an alternative to changing it all at once is to start somewhere - i do however agree that this - eventually - puts the one faction in a fairly weak position with many other factions that at least passive-aggressively antagonizing them. ( that is - if the relation and perception of the faction does not change )

- there are factions out there without such big assets like capital warships - and in their own right - they seem to do well enough. Sometimes the incomplete shipline is "bargained" with a nicer ID, sometimes with slightly above average smaller ships. - But i do not think that the possession of capital warships greatly empowers nor weakens a faction in pvp or lore ( much ).

- Zoners have a complete shipline - but it is kind of a waste, because as per their ID, they must always wait for the enemy to make the first move before they can do anything. If that was to be balanced - Zoner ships would need an even greater deal more hitpoints to make up for always fighting on "others" terms and always taking "the first salvo"

With that in mind - i do not think that Zoners really rely on their military assets - at all. And so the idea had been to make them focus on what they are really good at ( which is not the military ) ... instead they would have received hybrid ships that may have acted as roleplay/science ships, megatransports and frigates - in short.. a special breed of transports with the hitpoints and capability to be a match in a defensive battle, while at the same time allowing their main concern to be fulfilled, which is trade and supply.

Focus on the strength - not the weakness

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC