Embargoes

[Jihadjoe]

Some of us do feel that ZONER tagged / ZONER Iffed transports should be allowed to take medicines, food, water, and air to Freeport 2 and that the Liberty Predident/high Command should meet with the Zoner council. The Zoners are not enemies of Liberty, and it shouldn't be that way now.

Which we would allow.

Also the fact that the lawful forces would have to check it the honesty of the claim, follow the transport to see if it arrives at said destination, creates player interaction, which in turn creates roleplay.

We don't allow goods to flow out of liberty and into rheinland, and we don't allow rheinland goods to flood into liberty, with the potential for them to be shodily built, or sabotaged, especialy military vehicles.

The embargo on all trade is being discussed at the moment and it subject to change, but I don't see how the liberty one is in any way destroying RP. I think blockade running is rather good fun, and brings about some rather nice lawful/trader RP that we rarely see. We more often get people running through alaska with artifacts, not saying a single word when questioned, then quickdocking on manhattan saying "what artifacts" and logging off. But I digress...

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[Guest]

"with the potential for them to be shodily built, or sabotaged, especialy military vehicles. "

As I told an LPI who questioned the nature of my Rheinland Blockade Running. "You won't have to worry about that, unless they find out where the shipments are really going". To intentionally sabotage your own equipment that you are selling, without knowledge of where its going, isn't in any way good for business.

[Thexare]

All this embargo is doing is making it easier for me to smuggle Cardamine or, ironically enough, cross the Liberty/Rheinland border.

You're stuck dealing with people who don't have the first clue how to get around the local lawfuls, giving me plenty of time to slip through a debris field.

Or I just report one of them to you (psst, ALS)Silverwind says hi.:)) and run past while you're distracted. Fun!

[David Petraeus]

Let me put it this way...

When the U.S. Imposed economic sanctions on Iraq near Desert Storm-era time, Iraq hurt badly since alot of their exports, possibly Oil, wasn't being shipped and things weren't coming in...

We have the Rheinland-Liberty Trade Embargo.

Trader #1 takes Military Vehicles from Liberty into Rheinland - Of course Liberty does not want Rheinland having their 'advanced' weaponry, not to mention that Rheinland would have complete access to their Tanks and Jeeps and what not, find weakspots or ways to disable the vehicle - Or even use them when the war starts to do some sabotage operation under the guise of a Liberty Army Tank... But the fact being all of the trader's take upwards of their entire cargo hold full of these... There is pretty much no way all of those tanks disappeared and isn't being hunted down like Edison Trent.

Trader #2 is shipping Military Vehicles from Rheinland into Liberty... Rheinland doesn't want their superior things falling into enemy hands... But what does Liberty want with them? Unless the Trader is some LSF Spy that was put in there to capture a few of their vehicles and then return to Liberty so the vehicles can be dissected... There really isn't much going - If some Trader popped through to Liberty and said "I'm funding you guys with War-machines!"
With the intent of selling them to the Navy, how do you think that would sound?

In real life if there was a war between the USA and Russia... And some civillian convoy pulled up with tank's being towed and said "I'm going to sell you Russian Tanks."

What do you think is going to happen and do you realize how absurb that is?

There is any possibility that the thing's are booby-trapped even if you where to place the man in custody and inspect his goods - There is still danger... Maybe hidden in with harmless pharmaceuticals are Rheinland Spies or Special Forces operatives designed for a preemptive strike... Or maybe the so called toys are poisoned with lead or something...

While Liberty may loose out on a few things, its better to be safe than sorry - However I trust that there might be purpose to RP a few of the stuff that was mentioned if the Navy/Military agree before it's done...

EDIT:

Oh and uhm... To those people who say "The embargo is stupid, how does liberty get their tanks?"
Mostly all U.S. Armed Forces classified material are never shipped in their completed format... They are pretty much put together at a friendly base or what not... And all of the producing factories are in the U.S. so while Rheinland remains a premier marketer for Military Vehicles; Liberty probably self-sustains its own Military just like Bowing-Lockheed does with today's Military in Real-Life.

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If Pershings can be pro Marine, so can I.

[bluntpencil2001]

Embargoes don't destroy any roleplay whatsoever. It just changes it.

You can't legally transport wieners and schnitzel from New Berlin to Texas any more. That doesn't mean that roleplay has been destroyed. It's been changed. You're either now going to have to export elsewhere, or become a smuggler.

War sucks.

On the military vehicles thing, that pisses me off. To be fair, the selling base should only sell to shippers that have a history of dealing with the military, or with select foreign enterprises.

I mean, really, why would Daumann sell tanks to someone that might even have a slim possibility of taking them to Liberty?

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[Derkylos]

Let me put it this way...

When the U.S. Imposed economic sanctions on Iraq near Desert Storm-era time, Iraq hurt badly since alot of their exports, possibly Oil, wasn't being shipped and things weren't coming in...

We have the Rheinland-Liberty Trade Embargo.

Trader #1 takes Military Vehicles from Liberty into Rheinland - Of course Liberty does not want Rheinland having their 'advanced' weaponry, not to mention that Rheinland would have complete access to their Tanks and Jeeps and what not, find weakspots or ways to disable the vehicle - Or even use them when the war starts to do some sabotage operation under the guise of a Liberty Army Tank... But the fact being all of the trader's take upwards of their entire cargo hold full of these... There is pretty much no way all of those tanks disappeared and isn't being hunted down like Edison Trent.

Trader #2 is shipping Military Vehicles from Rheinland into Liberty... Rheinland doesn't want their superior things falling into enemy hands... But what does Liberty want with them? Unless the Trader is some LSF Spy that was put in there to capture a few of their vehicles and then return to Liberty so the vehicles can be dissected... There really isn't much going - If some Trader popped through to Liberty and said "I'm funding you guys with War-machines!"
With the intent of selling them to the Navy, how do you think that would sound?

In real life if there was a war between the USA and Russia... And some civillian convoy pulled up with tank's being towed and said "I'm going to sell you Russian Tanks."

What do you think is going to happen and do you realize how absurb that is?

There is any possibility that the thing's are booby-trapped even if you where to place the man in custody and inspect his goods - There is still danger... Maybe hidden in with harmless pharmaceuticals are Rheinland Spies or Special Forces operatives designed for a preemptive strike... Or maybe the so called toys are poisoned with lead or something...

While Liberty may loose out on a few things, its better to be safe than sorry - However I trust that there might be purpose to RP a few of the stuff that was mentioned if the Navy/Military agree before it's done...

Hate to nitpick, but you just contradicted yourself. To paraphrase: "Liberty does not want Rheinland to get their hands on their tanks etc, because they will reverse engineer them/mount undercover ops/w/e" and "Liberty does not want Rheinland's tanks coz they may be faulty".

By this logic, neither side should be preventing the exports, because the other side is preventing the imports...but then one side will catch on and allow the imports, meaning the other side will have to prevent exports...horrendous vicious circle.

In the case of someone bringing anything into your nation/house/state/whatever, you should accept them on the condition that the items in question are sold within your house (or however you wanna RP it: handed over to the local authorities and a "finder's fee" paid, etc).

In the old trade system, Bretonia frowned on any produce being shipped from Kusari, through Bretonia and on to the Zoners (E-comps to Lanzarote).

At present, all that seems to happen is a group of lawfuls sit in Houston orbit, accosting every passing trader. The serious blockade runners get by easily, and everyone else gets bored.

The problem with such attempts to completely prevent the flow of traffic is that, in most cases, one of two things will happen. Either the flow will stop completely, and the only people you will ever have passing to RP with (remember, the key concept is that flow of traders=RP) will be those "powertraders", literally the silent/the ignorant/those who cry "I'm a Zoner, you can't touch me", etc, or, and this is more likely, people will continue to do the run(s) when your faction is absent. It is impossible to keep a 24/7 watch. This result will also deprive you of any "good" RP encounters, leaving the aforementioned group of players, and the "enforcing" faction looking for other outlets for interaction.

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[David Petraeus]

And the fact that once takes are completed they are usually put into Military Storage...

Good luck trying to STEAL a tank before it reaches a Military Storehouse.

EDIT: Liberty DOESNT want Rheinland's tanks because they have their own, and at the ridiculous amounts of tanks that have been 'shipped' to Liberty - we should already have enough to even get their information at this point...

You don't sell M1A1 Abram's on the black market without getting every Intelligence Agency on earth looking for you - Any Military Vehicle's that probably are shipped from Liberty are either done by an Intelligence Agency and usually never return to steal again - Or are old surplus equipment that Liberty really doesn't want floating around their space... Can you imagine the local gang going around with M1 Shermans?

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If Pershings can be pro Marine, so can I.

[Guest]

*cough* I spoke of Engine Components.

96 AS - Valhalla's improved engine design in exchange for Rheinland's advances in construction.

Its technically.... our equipment:Pnot theirs.

Rheinland! We wantz our engines back! We'll even have them smuggled out!!!11one

[Spear]

I've always had concerns with the embargo since the start, not only do Liberty lawfuls have far too many unlawfuls/smugglers to deal with add embargo runners to the list. Mostly the people caught are new players who dont understand the RP.

I'd hate to see it as an excuse to "rape" transports that have no chance of competing in a firefight. In RP it makes sense, in practise it creates a headache that personally I can do without.

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=LSF=

[kingvaillant]

It ain't supposed to be KOS. If you see any Liberty lawful killing a violator without even giving him the chance to turn back... Tell LN or LSF leaderships

The liberty laws are there for a reason, to prevent players from playing in a very unfair way

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Director of the Liberty Security Force: Fidelity, Bravery and Integrity

The Amundsen Zone-21 Restrictions