Consultation: Shipyard bonuses for Gallia and Rheinland

[jammi]

I'd like to throw in my two cents.

Regarding the old system I'm still think, that propulsion systems should use H-Fuel as ingredients and switching from Gold to Silver for Superstructure might be best.
Why? Because both commodities are mineable by the houses with the component boni. It can be used to focus on border skirmishes and corporate wars. As stated before, High-Temperature alloy would already contain Niobium (see 2.) and is reachable by Kusari and Rheinland.

Regardless of that I'd like to raise a few points for your changes:

1. If the Liberty-Kusari conflicts progresses, Rheinland might be the lawful monopoly for Kusari to get Interior systems
   
2. It might be a good idea to give shipping corporations player bases the possibility to manufactor non-mineable HRC. They haven't necessarily to be an ingredients for the ship components. They could also be manufactored out of low-value commodities, so one can still outperform local npc prices (or you tweak the production).
   
3. It might be good to review the NPC buy-prices for ship components, as there are limited players and limited ships, the demand is not endless. If there are no new ships the production of components would be a waste
   
4. Add more ship recipes please. I understand you had to start at some point, but enabling the possibility to produce house capitals below npc prices would give options.
   
5. Are the diamonds of Interiors replaceable with Hessian tears? Otherwise unlawful factions might loose the ability to run their own component production.
   
6. In your proposed Superstructures recipe I see Molybdenum. Will Daumann get mining and refining boni for that commodity or will this still be GMS mining only?
   

As always, please consider these points as my opinion and suggestion as a player. It does not claim to represent the optimal solution.

1. Possibly.
2. This is something we're considering, yes. The main difficulty is finding recipes that (a) make sense for each commodity, (b) don't require a disproportionate time investment, © don't create warped profit margins at the optimal POB placement.
3. This is also something we're looking at, yes.
4. Mostly we'd like to add new ships as construction options (when they appear), but existing ones are something we could potentially consider.
5. They would be, yes. I'll update that.
6. I thought Daumann already have this, but it transpires they do not. DHC were supposed to have Moly rather than Aluminium. I'll raise this for discussion and let you know. Ideally, there shouldn't be any resources that only have a single faction mining them.

---

News article library, feedback and content requests.

[Culbrelai]

Well, this would totally screw over my Crayter interior production pob, it would also increase their price because Titanium is much, much cheaper than diamonds. I am quite frankly not too keen on giving Rhienland any more pob related bonuses considering their massive, undeniable boon in having Ablative armor be so nearby for codename production. Rhienland is by far the best place for codename production due to this. I do not feel it would be fair to give them even more pob bonuses.

The proposed propulsion change is fine, I approve of alt goods being added wherever possible. In fact, perhaps you should consider Titanium/Diamonds be alt goods for Interiors if you are dead set on changing it.
Your superstructure change would screw Bretonia over pretty hard as it is difficult for them to get Molybdenum, and this would also increase the price of superstructures because Moly is of course much more expensive than Hull panels. It would also make it not much easier at all for Rhienland due to the gold requirement, and Moly being all that close.

---

#NotMySNAC

[Karst]

Interesting. Let's look at these in detail.

Interiors, with Copper-Diamonds, have a route of viability between those two sources. If you gain a unit of distance from either, you lose one to the other, so their viability along the route is flexible and determined by the availability of the other two ingredients.
The route between Omega-11 and Coronado goes through Bretonia though, not Rheinland. While building in, say, Hamburg will save you a little bit in cost on the Xenos, that won't be worth the increased distance from both Copper and Diamonds compared to a Bretonia location.
In practice, the ideal spot would be somewhere that has Xenos available, lies on the Copper-Diamond route, and has cheap indies....or in other words, Omega-3.

Sigh.
Edit again: To be clear, Omega-3 is probably the best location but not by a huge margin. Coronado, New London, and Stuttgart are all perfectly adequate. Cortez, Manchester, Cambridge, and Omega-7 are on the route but suboptimal since they lack indies and/or Xenos.
If you want to disadvantage O-3 a bit you could remove Xenos from Freeport 1.

Propulsions are problematic since they use one ingredient twice (Hull Panels take two cargo but the recipe still needs 100). This highly restricts manufacturing locations, since for every unit of distance you gain from a shipyard, you need to lose distance to two of the other ingredients.
This one is really tricky to calculate. Previously, the ideal location was Yokohama shipyard, being the base price source of three of the five ingredients and on the midpoint between the two others. Yokohama is still probably the cheapest location, but the fastest would now be Briancon in Languedoc, which sells every ingredient within at most one jump if you don't mind very expensive Engine Components.

Supers: These are really straightforward. Any location between Freiburg Station and the Cambridge jump gate in New London is basically equally viable, with each unit of distance gained from Gold and Super Alloy losing distance to Ablas and Molybdenum. Seems sensible enough.

Edit: It's worth noting that these changes will skyrocket the prices of Interiors, and further increase the already very expensive Supers. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but yeah. It's a thing.

---

[Lord Caedus]

Interesting. Let's look at these in detail.

Interiors, with Copper-Diamonds, have a route of viability between those two sources. If you gain a unit of distance from either, you lose one to the other, so their viability along the route is flexible and determined by the availability of the other two ingredients.
The route between Omega-11 and Coronado goes through Bretonia though, not Rheinland. While building in, say, Hamburg will save you a little bit in cost on the Xenos, that won't be worth the increased distance from both Copper and Diamonds compared to a Bretonia location.
In practice, the ideal spot would be somewhere that has Xenos available, lies on the Copper-Diamond route, and has cheap indies....or in other words, Omega-3.

Sigh.

Propulsions are problematic since they use one ingredient twice (Hull Panels take two cargo but the recipe still needs 100). This highly restricts manufacturing locations, since for every unit of distance you gain from a shipyard, you need to lose distance to two of the other ingredients.
This one is really tricky to calculate. Previously, the ideal location was Yokohama shipyard, being the base price source of three of the five ingredients and on the midpoint between the two others. Yokohama is still probably the cheapest location, but the fastest would now be Briancon in Languedoc, which sells every ingredient within at most one jump if you don't mind very expensive Engine Components.

Supers: These are really straightforward. Any location between Freiburg Station and the Cambridge jump gate in New London is basically equally viable, with each unit of distance gained from Gold and Super Alloy losing distance to Ablas and Molybdenum. Seems sensible enough.

Edit: It's worth noting that these changes will skyrocket the prices of Interiors, and further increase the already very expensive Supers. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but yeah. It's a thing.

Yeah I have to agree with what Karst has said here, but I will note two things that affect the points that he has made in particular.

Firstly, Jammi specifically mentioned a short while ago that Sprague will no longer be a source for Industrial Mats, with that being moved to Newcastle as a part of the rework of that system in general.

Second, Languedoc is also getting a rather comprehensive layout rework, and will at the very least be changing the immediate numbers for Briancon, as it won't be in the same location anymore.

I think if you want more consistent feedback from the community on this, it would probably be a good idea to at least wait until after the patch so everyone can take a look at the new system layouts.

---

[Karst]

So I guess I didn't explicitly say that in the previous post but these changes are in fact good.
All I'd adjust is:

- Drop Xenos from O-3, because fuck O-3
- Do something about the double hull panels. I guess halving the requirement would be problematic since that'd result in a 12.5 unit cost with bonus. Maybe just make them a normal single unit commodity.

This still somewhat limits what bases within Rheinland can build - basically, they have a not-super-amazing spot for Ints and a great spot for Supers right outside Freiburg, and nowhere else - but I guess we can accept that.

---

[Logan]

Interspace Commerce gets no bonuses on ship parts.

I posted about it in the player request thread. It's been three months but I have not received any answer yet.

I also talked to the server admin about it. He told me that talks are going on. but It is been two months already.

---

---

---

---

Ilfracombe Base page, Wiki page, Vendors Shop page
A Pretty Helpful Tutorial Database, Modular Shipyard Info, Mining Guide, Base Guide

---

---

[BMF]

Honestly, my opinion is that shipbuilding is to easy and too profitable.
Players already practicing insane prices on systems and ships to make things worst.
I also think shipbuilding meccanics should not swap with the politics, the materials are what they are and there are consequences and shortages because of economic sanctions, such is life
So at the end this should be a economy thing and so...
Here is the breakdown of my toughts :

There are basicaly 3 possible final prices for ship systems:

Most systems average cost around 9k variable with PoB location.

"worst" case scenario=
means paying haulers some profit
means getting the items from the closest possible location
Means final sell prica around 12k/15k

cheap af scenario=
means get stuff from the cheapest location
means haulers get no profit
Means final prica around 6k/9k

BMF way =
means you take gold everywere
means bringing stuff from cheapest location
Means final prica around -10k/-13k

Interactions are reduced and to increasse this as well as trade...
The solution seems quite simple to me and everyone will hate it:
I will use the superstructures as an example:

Superstructures: current
consumed_dynamic_alt = 100, commodity_gold, commodity_pirate_gold=========replace the mineable for a foreign one like aluminium
consumed = commodity_ship_hull_panels, 100
consumed = commodity_ablativearmor, 100
consumed = commodity_super_alloys, 100

So by swaping the mineable, the trading becomes mandatory, this can be done with all other systems, remenber that the max WORTH of a system rarely exceeds the 15k per unit (unless we speaking about the stupidly high ADV BC ship prices)

I also think that a new rule should be introduced were the hauling of systems would only be legal if done by certain factions that at the moment do not have Bonus on anything.
As an example for Bretonia should be gateway i believe they have no Bonus maybe, Universal Shipping for Liberty and so on, these wouls be theyr "white Boxes" in a way.

Here is our tool feel free to use our Shipyard price calculator

---

General | Recruitment | Security Research | Tea & Pea Bar
Isle Of Skye | Fortitudine

BMF Discord