getting back on course or keeping it...

[n00bl3t]

The info card was written by a community member, not by the original developer. It can be changed to say whatever it is we want it to say. Do note, I didn't say they need to be rare in the sense of there being two of them. I said they need to be rare in the sense they aren't sitting in front of Manhatten. That is exactly how you said they should be used.

I feel without restricting them, people will continue to abuse them and park them in front of places like Manhatten. There is no system in place to prevent this. They get blown up sure. What stops them from going back? Nothing. Could we try to use Faction Right 2 to order them not to? Sure and it would be easy to justify in role play. Will it work? Doubtful, I've not seen a player lose a Jinkusu for breaking an FR2 order.

You think they don't need to be restricted and I know others agree with you. I think they should and others agree with me. This was the case back when the restriction was proposed. A compromise was then suggested:

Limit their ZoI like the BHG Core cap ships are.

I know not of any Juggernaut sitting in NY right now, let alone atop Manhattan.

I know that there have been troublesome Juggernauts, but they have all been sanctioned and corrected their ways, been transferred to another player or deleted. The system does not work instantaneously, and this is to allow enough review to stem bias.

There is a solution. Order an FR2 by compromising with the three Zoner factions on an adequate FR2, and once done, file a 6.10 reputation for failing to follow conduct associated with reputation. Or an FR5. It is a harder path and it requires communication, but such is the responsibility of a faction leader.

---

Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Daedric]

I know not of any Juggernaut sitting in NY right now, let alone atop Manhattan.

I know that there have been troublesome Juggernauts, but they have all been sanctioned and corrected their ways, been transferred to another player or deleted. The system does not work instantaneously, and this is to allow enough review to stem bias.

There is a solution. Order an FR2 by compromising with the three Zoner factions on an adequate FR2, and once done, file a 6.10 reputation for failing to follow conduct associated with reputation. Or an FR5. It is a harder path and it requires communication, but such is the responsibility of a faction leader.

No, there aren't any this minute. That is an obvious statement and a deflection. Another issue that people have with the Omicroners in general. You deflect or make statements that are obvious, to try to debase another persons point. Take for example your post regarding that the info card doesn't state Jinks should be rare. You made that post because I said they should be rare. Yet I clearly said rare as in not seen, which is exactly how you said they should be used in a previous post. You essentially ignored part of what I said so that you could argue with me over it.

I find it funny that you would try to tell me what the responsibility of a faction leader is. The Omicroners are the ones who do not communicate. You've filed FR5s without the consent or knowledge of OSI and the TAZ very recently.

Not to mention, FR5 cannot be used against a character bearing the same ID as the faction wielding FR5. Cannon made that clear. The only option is FR2 usage, then followed by 6.10 sanction. I'd much prefer it if I didn't have to spend my time working to get a FR2 approved and then have to file a sanction on another player because he was doing something he felt was okay because he didn't know any better.

Preventing the problem before it happens is always a better thing than punishing the player after he creates a problem. So I ask you, what do you think of the compromise that was suggested?

Limit Zoner Aquilon's and Jinkusu's ZoI? I'd suggest the Omicrons and Omegas.

---

Helpful Discovery Guides

Get Help Here! | Player Base Guide | Mining Guide | Trading Guide

Reputation Guide | Zoner Rep Guide

OSI Information | Join OSI! | Nichols Trade Center
OSI Bounty Board | OSI Feedback

[Curios]

This discussing went a fancy way. So from my pov i see a very source (i belive it to be so) of problem.

Omicroner rp is "arrogant, defensive, paranoid, aggressive, bla bla", and for me it seems you'r moving your in rp traits into you'r oorp traits and begin to be agressive, ignorant, paranoid, etc to other people on forum both inrp and oorp.
You ask a question and when the answer you don't like comes down your way you start to go on people asking to close the topics, whine, complain, etc.
This is your reaction as members of this community - not reacion of your characters in game. Try to think of it a bit. Maybe you'll be able to find out why zoners are hated. Wait. Omicroners are hated. If you want to know how that work - there is a Freeport 5 out there everyone tend to forget about. Why there is no drama storming around that FP? Becuase in RP me (as a corsair side) and zoner representative (Not member of Omicroners btw) came to the dialogue and we had a nice bit of rp out of all the mess you made around the zoners and sairs. And we came to very good terms with each others by keeping to the rp behind our factions.
But you pretending to be right over others, claiming you'r right and everyone elese are wrong. When everyone else looks wrong for me then I start to think - maybe i do something wrong myself? But you seems don't.

Quiet funny.

---

[lousal]

This discussing went a fancy way. So from my pov i see a very source (i belive it to be so) of problem.

Omicroner rp is "arrogant, defensive, paranoid, aggressive, bla bla", and for me it seems you'r moving your in rp traits into you'r oorp traits and begin to be agressive, ignorant, paranoid, etc to other people on forum both inrp and oorp.
You ask a question and when the answer you don't like comes down your way you start to go on people asking to close the topics, whine, complain, etc.
This is your reaction as members of this community - not reacion of your characters in game. Try to think of it a bit. Maybe you'll be able to find out why zoners are hated. Wait. Omicroners are hated. If you want to know how that work - there is a Freeport 5 out there everyone tend to forget about. Why there is no drama storming around that FP? Becuase in RP me (as a corsair side) and zoner representative (Not member of Omicroners btw) came to the dialogue and we had a nice bit of rp out of all the mess you made around the zoners and sairs. And we came to very good terms with each others by keeping to the rp behind our factions.
But you pretending to be right over others, claiming you'r right and everyone elese are wrong. When everyone else looks wrong for me then I start to think - maybe i do something wrong myself? But you seems don't.

Quiet funny.

If it wouldn't touch a nerve of yours you wouldn't mind posting here, right? That's where you should start I'd say. The next reasonable step would be to ask yourself why you are getting so upset if you're being confronted by the initial mistakes of the Corsair factions!? There's plenty of evidence, so it's rather ridiculous to deny it. If you manage this step you might come to the conclusion that the conduct of the Omicroners, or certain Omicroners, is not intended arrogance, but it's hard to explain it properly without being blunt: Your're simply not impressive enough to make the Omicroners admit mistakes they didn't do. Oh, and don't get me wrong please - there ARE impressive people around who'd be able to impress the Omicroners to some extent, but it's unfortunately a matter of fact that not really everybody can be equally impressive. Call it life if you want to.

And let me define "tolerance" for you, just a small lesson, I'm sure you're ready to take since you've switched into "lecturing mode": The Omicroners do not care how you are defining the Corsair RP. It might be interesting for a small banter, but none of us will tell you his honest opinion concerning your definitions facing the fact that you're not even able to live with a rejection of your unreflected critique. But that should actually imply that you're content with the situation, because it's everything you can reach. The advantage is that you haven't lost anything.

Actually, it isn't hard to understand. All you need is common sense.

[n00bl3t]

No, there aren't any this minute. That is an obvious statement and a deflection. Another issue that people have with the Omicroners in general. You deflect or make statements that are obvious, to try to debase another persons point. Take for example your post regarding that the info card doesn't state Jinks should be rare. You made that post because I said they should be rare. Yet I clearly said rare as in not seen, which is exactly how you said they should be used in a previous post. You essentially ignored part of what I said so that you could argue with me over it.

I find it funny that you would try to tell me what the responsibility of a faction leader is. The Omicroners are the ones who do not communicate. You've filed FR5s without the consent or knowledge of OSI and the TAZ very recently.

Not to mention, FR5 cannot be used against a character bearing the same ID as the faction wielding FR5. Cannon made that clear. The only option is FR2 usage, then followed by 6.10 sanction. I'd much prefer it if I didn't have to spend my time working to get a FR2 approved and then have to file a sanction on another player because he was doing something he felt was okay because he didn't know any better.

Preventing the problem before it happens is always a better thing than punishing the player after he creates a problem. So I ask you, what do you think of the compromise that was suggested?

Limit Zoner Aquilon's and Jinkusu's ZoI? I'd suggest the Omicrons and Omegas.

It is not a deflection. My part of the argument is simple. There is not enough offending Jinkusus and Aquilons to consider such drastic measures. Each previous Zoner capital ship which has not conformed to Zoner RP about the Jinkusu has, like I said a few posts back, been transferred to another player, removed or deleted. Do not try and deflect my point.

Rare, and not seen are two different terms. If they were the same term, there would be no disagreement. That is why there are many Juggernauts and Aquilons currently.

To be honest, I wonder which Administrator gives you this oh-so-accurate information. As Faction Leader, I am yet to file a single FR5. Surprising, no? And strangely enough, here I am, communicating. Stop trying to lie about things Daedric, I am right here in front of you. I even made the Zoner General Skype Chat so inter-faction communication would improve. And that was weeks before this.

There is a fallacy in your statement. If you file an FR2, then the player does know better. Also, if you limit the ZoI and a player goes outside it, then that is not preventing the problem, as the violation of the condition would lead to a sanction.

Looking forward to your response.:D

---

Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Dab]

Okay, I poked the moderator chat about it twice, but no one has done it yet;

Jinx requested a lock on this thread. Being involved, I am not supposed to act as a moderator here. However, if Jinx doesn't mind and still wants a lock, I will be able to do this. Please post letting me know.

---

[Daedric]

It is not a deflection. My part of the argument is simple. There is not enough offending Jinkusus and Aquilons to consider such drastic measures. Each previous Zoner capital ship which has not conformed to Zoner RP about the Jinkusu has, like I said a few posts back, been transferred to another player, removed or deleted. Do not try and deflect my point.

Rare, and not seen are two different terms. If they were the same term, there would be no disagreement. That is why there are many Juggernauts and Aquilons currently.

To be honest, I wonder which Administrator gives you this oh-so-accurate information. As Faction Leader, I am yet to file a single FR5. Surprising, no? And strangely enough, here I am, communicating. Stop trying to lie about things Daedric, I am right here in front of you. I even made the Zoner General Skype Chat so inter-faction communication would improve. And that was weeks before this.

There is a fallacy in your statement. If you file an FR2, then the player does know better. Also, if you limit the ZoI and a player goes outside it, then that is not preventing the problem, as the violation of the condition would lead to a sanction.

Looking forward to your response.:D

I'd like to know exactly how you know that all offending Zoner cap ships have been transferred to another player, removed or deleted? Are you one of the ones flying them and causing issues? As I know you don't know every single player who has one, I know you are talking out of your arse. I'm not deflecting your point. I'm calling the BS you are trying to use to prove your point.

You don't feel there are enough offending cap ships. The majority of the other Zoner leaders do.

Rare can mean not seen. As it it is rarely seen. Not a common sight. That is exactly what I said; I even went as far as spelling it out, yet you deflected by ignoring a specific part of my sentence.

Your communication is telling everyone else they are wrong and you are right. Making snide comments and calling people idiots if they don't agree with you. That is not communication. You are a prime reason OSI leaders don't like dealing ooRP with the Omicroners. We don't like talking to you because you either insult us, our role play, or refuse to accept that we have a different opinion on a subject. It isn't only us, this thread is proof that you have that attitude.

We didn't need Zoner General to have inter faction communication. Stygian, Doc, Tristian, Jinx, Lou, and myself are in a Skype chat and when we need to talk we hammer stuff out there. Or we use forum PMs due to time zone differences.

There is no fallacy in my statement, it is supported by a good deal of people. This thread is a shining example of my statement, though Gheis has said it far more eloquently than I.

You claim that limiting the ZoI wouldn't fix the problem. This is a false statement. You'll notice the Core ID had restrictions put on it limiting the ZoI of their cap ships. The problems they have dried up quickly.

Anyways, as has been pointed out: You won't admit you are wrong. In your mind everyone else is wrong all of the time. Hence there is no point in discussing anything with you. Not to mention this is moving more towards internal drama than a discussion over Zoners in general. Let's agree to disagree shall we?

---

Helpful Discovery Guides

Get Help Here! | Player Base Guide | Mining Guide | Trading Guide

Reputation Guide | Zoner Rep Guide

OSI Information | Join OSI! | Nichols Trade Center
OSI Bounty Board | OSI Feedback

[n00bl3t]

I'd like to know exactly how you know that all offending Zoner cap ships have been transferred to another player, removed or deleted? Are you one of the ones flying them and causing issues? As I know you don't know every single player who has one, I know you are talking out of your arse. I'm not deflecting your point. I'm calling the BS you are trying to use to prove your point.

You don't feel there are enough offending cap ships. The majority of the other Zoner leaders do.

Rare can mean not seen. As it it is rarely seen. Not a common sight. That is exactly what I said; I even went as far as spelling it out, yet you deflected by ignoring a specific part of my sentence.

Your communication is telling everyone else they are wrong and you are right. Making snide comments and calling people idiots if they don't agree with you. That is not communication. You are a prime reason OSI leaders don't like dealing ooRP with the Omicroners. We don't like talking to you because you either insult us, our role play, or refuse to accept that we have a different opinion on a subject. It isn't only us, this thread is proof that you have that attitude.

We didn't need Zoner General to have inter faction communication. Stygian, Doc, Tristian, Jinx, Lou, and myself are in a Skype chat and when we need to talk we hammer stuff out there. Or we use forum PMs due to time zone differences.

There is no fallacy in my statement, it is supported by a good deal of people. This thread is a shining example of my statement, though Gheis has said it far more eloquently than I.

You claim that limiting the ZoI wouldn't fix the problem. This is a false statement. You'll notice the Core ID had restrictions put on it limiting the ZoI of their cap ships. The problems they have dried up quickly.

Anyways, as has been pointed out: You won't admit you are wrong. In your mind everyone else is wrong all of the time. Hence there is no point in discussing anything with you. Not to mention this is moving more towards internal drama than a discussion over Zoners in general. Let's agree to disagree shall we?

What current problem Juggernaut or Aquilon are you dealing with? The answer is none.

The other Zoner leaders are more than welcome to contact me about any problem Juggernaut or Aquilon, and I am sure we can reach an appropriate arrangement to deal with the ship.

They can also be invisible Cross.

I have not made a snide comment in this Juggernaut/Aquilon issue yet. I was wondering how you know of any FR5 that any Omicroner Faction Leader has filed? And if so, which Administrator is telling you? I am questioning a potential breach of trust. And I have not called anyone an idiot in here, again, another lie.

I am more than willing to communicate, but from the stereotypes you hold of me, you seem to have an issue talking with me. This is your problem Cross, not mine. I am here.

The Core has other issues forming over it, but this is not a discussion about the Core. It is about Juggernauts and Aquilons. I never claimed limiting the ZoI would not fix the problem, I said it was rather drastic and I would like to try other things first. Do not twist my words Cross.

---

Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[JIVA]

lock it down - answers and opinions were given in the first 30-40 replies - now its mostly a back and forth and mostly off topic.

---

the [JIVA] group