Pirating Demand (I know another one)

[BaconSoda]

Alright, folks, I have a bit of a conundrum. When pirating, the notion of a demand has always been quite sketchy for me. Upon review of the rules, this is what it says about pirating:

6.19 Pirates and terrorists have a right to deal as much damage as they see fit before or after demanding money from a trader ship, but killing trader ship before demanding money or cargo is not allowed. Attacking traders or demanding cargo is not allowed for cruisers and battleships, unless cruisers and battleship belong to Terrorist ID or Phantom ID owner.

Now, if you demand a trader to stop, and he does not, at which point you open fire on them, is the demand to stop not considered a demand in itself? If that demand is not met, should a pirate have the right to destroy a trader?

If in the above said situation, if a trader decides to attack a pirate, does that count as self defense for the pirate because he was interrupted while in the process of pirating, or would it be classified as self defense for the trader, as he is the one under attack from the pirate? This is the rule on self defense:

5.2 If a player is attacked*, he has a right to defend himself regardless of who is attacking. There are no restrictions for self-defense.

*For purposes of these Rules, an attack is draining shields to 50% or lower, or hull damage, or when a Cruise Disruptor is fired. Intentional ramming of any large ship is also considered an attack.

It seems now that the trader would be the one acting in self defense, but only if a CD was fired or if the shields were substantially damaged (in the case of a SN/Inferno). Would it be a pirate's right to destroy a target in self defense if he were in a fighter and be thusly unable to substantially drain the shields of a transport in a short enough period of time? Or is the interruption of the act of piracy in itself self defense?

I'm rather confused at this and could use some answers, thanks to anyone who replies!

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[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.

[Dab]

Well on the trader firing on the pirate scenario:
The pirate has every right to kill the trader without a demand if the trader opens fire first. The rules for self-defense are clear, you may defend yourself no matter what, as soon as your shield dips below 50%.

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[Zelot]

Bacon, I am confused:$, where is the poll options, I can't figure out which option to vote for if they are not there:P.



Seriously though, a which comes first thing. Pirate trys to stop trader...thats an attack, so....Trader defends him or herself...Pirate initiated encounter, loses ability to act in self defense, still must make demand.

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[timmychen]

And at that first one:

"Stop or die does NOT constitute piracy"

[El Nino]

Heh, you're out there trying to pirate why the hell would you bother with such finesse... sooner or latter You'll make a demand for cargo or more often credit transaction...

What's interesting thou is the fact that rules state "from a trader ship". What if you're a snuggler?

Are Snugglers traders? //probably yes, but if they're not i'm gonna rule lawyer every "pay" or "cash" or the classic "2m or die"...

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Skype: jure.grbec
My primary char: Jose El Nino - Corsair Elder captain of the SS Greenhawk

Currently Inactive due to pursuit of life long dreams, will be back...*edited* As promised am back.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Well on the trader firing on the pirate scenario:
The pirate has every right to kill the trader without a demand if the trader opens fire first. The rules for self-defense are clear, you may defend yourself no matter what, as soon as your shield dips below 50%.

It's quite hard to take proofs that he really shot as first. In case if you are 100% sure that trader won't pay you, and you drained his shield and hull down already what's the problem in typing short: "2MLN or perish" before the final shot just for sake of your own calmness.
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Baconsoda, firing CD isn't considered as attack.

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Cositas Buenas

Recruitment | Secure Comm Channel | Dossiers | Diplomatic Channel | Assassins Wing

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__________

[BaconSoda]

And at that first one:

"Stop or die does NOT constitute piracy"

Well that clears that up. Terrorists that aren't Xenos need better IDs!:rtfm:

Baconsoda, firing CD isn't considered as attack.

But, wait, according to the rule I posted, it is.

*For purposes of these Rules, an attack is draining shields to 50% or lower, or hull damage, or when a Cruise Disruptor is fired. Intentional ramming of any large ship is also considered an attack.

So, then, is it just the trader defending himself, yes?

what's the problem in typing short: "2MLN or perish" before the final shot just for sake of your own calmness.

Because in good RP I really just want to kill them (FA dislikes foreigners). The only reason I make a demand in the beginning is because I'm a gentleman (and because the rules make me). We definitely need new IDs....

And Zelot, always picking on me me......Jerk....

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[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.

[Baltar]

More interpretations ... more loopholes ... a never ending cycle.

[BaconSoda]

More interpretations ... more loopholes ... a never ending cycle.

I'm not looking for loopholes, simply wondering if I can destroy a gaijin I would like to destroy in the first place rather than having to give him a chance to give me money (I must have a reputation, in the last 3 days absolutely everyone has payed me).

Zelot summed it up nicely, though, so I think that I'll be asking no more serious questions outside flood or poll form for a while....

Thanks everyone.

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[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.