Discovery Mod: Balance Issues

[Tank16365]

I'd like to mention something I've noticed over the last few days. It concerns cruise disruptors. And what I've noticed, is that while trying to escape an enemy, they fire a cruise disrupter, and I try to evade, and will succeed, and watch the torpedo completely miss my ship, and continue flying in the direction it was going, but I still get dropped out of cruise. Im not sure if maybe this was intentional, but it kinda makes it pointless to try to evade them, if they're going to have their effect, even when they miss.

[SnakThree]

They have explosion range.

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[Curios]

Dont know whether it was mentioned here before but...

Battleship+cloaking device makes the battleship kind of invicible. Its dry, it cloaks, it runs...
Balancing the cloaking devices in general would be nice, othwise it just serves as a cheap "not-dying-method"

U mad

Everyone and his dog was doing it before, rozenmaden side including and concern rised only now? :lol:

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[Govedo13]

I noticed that the transports with more cargo got only the ability to use both Hyperspace Modules and Docking Modules.
In general it is ok for low tier transports not to have it,but there are some transports that have not so much cargo but are expensive enough and it is logical to have more extras.
Salvager and both Yachts could get both slots.
BWT, Firefly,Ptransp etc could get docking only slot only. Mammoth, Percheron etc tier should not get anything.

As it seems now the mark is 4000 cargo- all ships above it have them both. This does not make much sense.
For me it is more strange to have train with cargo pods able to utilise docking then any of those ships.
Let say BWT modded for docking makes much more sense then Stork with docking module. House 5kers could have both because they are with bulk storage not with containers.

It is sad that transport class around 2000-3000 cargo is constantly nerfed since 4.85-bunch of transports got nerfed, fighter turrets got removed, cruiser piracy and GB OPnes nerf them as well.
If this got implemented this transport class would be used not only for starter in-between train ship but also for escorting bigger ships and robbing them.
Since I does not posses all transports in Discovery I based my research on what I got and on the Wiki info.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Jack_Henderson]

I have another balance issue, I assume well known but it struck me in a discussion yesterday:

My basic assumption for my thoughts is:

No one-man activity in a multi-player game should have a chance of 100 % success.

The cloaky, high-CAU Pirate Transport has exactly that. Close to 100 % success rate. 0 % chance for the defending party to fend it off in time, 0 % death risk for the PTrans. I would say it is the most unbalanced ship in the entire mod, even worse than Gunboats.

Why?

A PT has enough cargo to come in undetected. The cloaking time is enough to enter an interaction cloaked.
=> no chance to run on early detection

A PT has the power to win against every other transport in a 1on1
=> no chance for the victim in a fight

A PT has the chance to cloak when he sees that he is facing an enemy he cannot beat
=> no chance for the players who did the right thing (had escort, called backup, teamed up, etc) to win

A PT will likely kill the soft target, then cloak and run off before anybody can do anything
=> no chance even for "revenge". Defenders, escorts etc can just watch the ship die as a PT is too sturdy to die even to big guns. The PTrans just goes "Ok, I kill you and then run" and then hugs the soft target until it blows up. Then cloaks. End of scene and insert random taunting.


I hunted cloaky Ptrans in every ship up to Cruisers. Not even a Cruiser can kill it before it is gone. I managed once in I bet ~40 chases to down one by blowing off the thruster and novaing the ship blindly afterwards. 1 time out of ~40 engagements of bomber vs. Ptrans.

I don't know how to balance it, but I generally dislike the "unlawful bias". PT has great hull, great guns, CD and good maneuverability and cloak and enough cargo to make it work brilliantly. Compare it to other transports of the same size.

The cloaky Ptrans has become the most annoying troll ship ever. With nearly 100 % escape chance, 100 % win chance against a solo transport, 0 % chance of escorts killing it in time, and thus hardly any chance of failing, it is the most annoying opponent that one can have.

Solo activity should in my opinion have a failure quota of 50 %. Not 0 %. Failure should mean pvp death, as it does for nearly all other classes that fail their mission. Not for the Ptrans. It buys dirt-cheap fuel and is back in less than 3 minutes to <strike>troll on</strike> continue interaction.

The cloaky pirate transports needs a lot of balancing against its natural enemies: escorts and transports. Cloaks tilted the scales horribly in the direction of the unlawful transport, making the "unlawful bias" advantage bigger than ever.




Same goes for the fighter/bomber cloaks that are just too weak. Less than 20 seconds cloak time on a UAU8 Roc and 30 seconds on a UAU5 is not enough. It reduces the coak to a "run away" tool, and deprives it of any other use.

I'd suggest a cloak time of 2 minutes for fighters/bombers.


Tnx for reading.:)

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[Curios]

You're mad because you got pirated.

We know that all actually, coz all the clocking stuff needs some rebalancing. Or not.

People are somehow becomes happy about cloacks when they managed to escape with their cap or transport or scouted the enemy base following the suppliers with cloacked liner.

But lately they are unhappy about enemies using the very same things.

I think the whole sysem should be redone. Or not redone at all. We all can use same things so the chances are same as well.

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[Dashiell]

I have another balance issue, I assume well known but it struck me in a discussion yesterday:

My basic assumption for my thoughts is:

No one-man activity in a multi-player game should have a chance of 100 % success.

The cloaky, high-CAU Pirate Transport has exactly that. Close to 100 % success rate. 0 % chance for the defending party to fend it off in time, 0 % death risk for the PTrans. I would say it is the most unbalanced ship in the entire mod, even worse than Gunboats.

Why?

A PT has enough cargo to come in undetected. The cloaking time is enough to enter an interaction cloaked.
=> no chance to run on early detection

A PT has the power to win against every other transport in a 1on1
=> no chance for the victim in a fight

A PT has the chance to cloak when he sees that he is facing an enemy he cannot beat
=> no chance for the players who did the right thing (had escort, called backup, teamed up, etc) to win

A PT will likely kill the soft target, then cloak and run off before anybody can do anything
=> no chance even for "revenge". Defenders, escorts etc can just watch the ship die as a PT is too sturdy to die even to big guns. The PTrans just goes "Ok, I kill you and then run" and then hugs the soft target until it blows up. Then cloaks. End of scene and insert random taunting.
I hunted cloaky Ptrans in every ship up to Cruisers. Not even a Cruiser can kill it before it is gone. I managed once in I bet ~40 chases to down one by blowing off the thruster and novaing the ship blindly afterwards. 1 time out of ~40 engagements of bomber vs. Ptrans.

I don't know how to balance it, but I generally dislike the "unlawful bias". PT has great hull, great guns, CD and good maneuverability and cloak and enough cargo to make it work brilliantly. Compare it to other transports of the same size.

The cloaky Ptrans has become the most annoying troll ship ever. With nearly 100 % escape chance, 100 % win chance against a solo transport, 0 % chance of escorts killing it in time, and thus hardly any chance of failing, it is the most annoying opponent that one can have.

Solo activity should in my opinion have a failure quota of 50 %. Not 0 %. Failure should mean pvp death, as it does for nearly all other classes that fail their mission. Not for the Ptrans. It buys dirt-cheap fuel and is back in less than 3 minutes to <strike>troll on</strike> continue interaction.

The cloaky pirate transports needs a lot of balancing against its natural enemies: escorts and transports. Cloaks tilted the scales horribly in the direction of the unlawful transport, making the "unlawful bias" advantage bigger than ever.
Same goes for the fighter/bomber cloaks that are just too weak. Less than 20 seconds cloak time on a UAU8 Roc and 30 seconds on a UAU5 is not enough. It reduces the coak to a "run away" tool, and deprives it of any other use.

I'd suggest a cloak time of 2 minutes for fighters/bombers.
Tnx for reading.:)

Agreed.

It's silly that high tech (military grade?) technology works best on dinky P transes, passenger vessels and prisoner haulers. These ships have now effectively become immortal. and are happily being abused as such.

And cloaks barely work on cruisers and snubs. Plus small battleships have a serious disadvantage over the bigger ones regarding this.

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[Govedo13]

I really feel the hypocrisy coming from the 12 gunned armoured transports that could kill every P transp.
May be adding cms to 12 gunners is the way to go, then they would be a not only better, but a lot better then P-transp. Only IMG and Gallics have proper small P-transp killer transp, there would be nice to add other such civilan ship.
None stops the miners of using cloak liners to haul ores with them or BWs/Fireflys. When you need firepower- just use 2 12 gunners that would totally own 2 P-transps or single P-transp, same with one bomber escort or GB escort. The cargo difference between 2900 cargo P-Transp and 5000 Train is huge, hence the battle capabilities are different. Every ship with cloak have the same features like P-transp.
Every cloaker dies damn easy by CD and cruiser with double missiles or nova bombers, for 60 sec you could subtarget his thruster and remove it really easy. It is hypocritical to be unhappy that you cannot kill the pirate when you could block him and make him run.
I wont mention that P transp received cargo nerf and core nerf compared to 4.85. Space is dangerous and traders/miners have 4-5 different tactics to block cloaked P-transps,there is absolutely no problem with that.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Pavel]

There are one-way only bottlenecks between Houses, O-7 and O-3, Sigma-13, Tau-31 and Tau-23. But there are 2 Independent Worlds systems leading to Liberty: Hudson and Bering, Galileo and Kepler, Cortez and Magellan. This discriminates trading between Houses other than Liberty.

[SnakThree]

There are one-way only bottlenecks between Houses, O-7 and O-3, Sigma-13, Tau-31 and Tau-23. But there are 2 Independent Worlds systems leading to Liberty: Hudson and Bering, Galileo and Kepler, Cortez and Magellan. This discriminates trading between Houses other than Liberty.

But the amount of pirates in Liberty by itself balances it out, don't you think?

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