Morrigan's list of what a gunboat should be able to do is frightening. If that is the accepted list of what we are aiming for it really doesn't make much sense for the rest of us to do anything other than run when we see one.
Having said that most of this discussion has concentrated on guns and agility.
What about shield and hull?
If these were nerfed the gunboats would not be able to stand toe to toe with bigger capships as long. Also it would affect everyones current loadout rather than forcing people to buy new stuff.
and again, i d point out that - if every ship bigger or equal to a gunboat/ship had no shields, but only hull, it would balance itself. ( provided we got rid of the "suicide-insurence" )
if a gunboat took damage for each shot it takes, it would be direct cash + the risk to get equipment damaged. that way, only fighters could be used for rediculous attacks untill their shields are down. any capship might still be tough to kill - but at least it would make the pilots / factions think twice to deploy them.
( advantage is that even fighters play a vital role in a capship combat then, by targetting and destroying subsystems like turrets, that they currently cannot do )
example. a gunboat with a full cerberus loadout wouldn t go against a battleship - and to ensure it - it might be coded that equipment can only be damaged when the armor is 50% or less. then a gunboat would risk heavy damage by a few well placed or lucky shots, while the battleship could take its time.
but anyway, that won t happen and i don t see a problem with gunboats anyway. most pilots on the server are average ( .... ) and only a few can push the gunboats to a limit. nerfing the gunboats so that those pusing it to the limit cannot use them this way anymore means the average pilots will be crippled even harder.
( oh, and i know how hard a gunboat is to hit for a battleship - but i also think that a brilliant pilot can do much more with an average ship than a bad pilot with a brilliant ship. - freelancer is less simulation and tactic and much more 1st-person shooter. its about a feeling for yourself and whats around you - its about perception and good reflexes - some people have more of this, some have less.
i just know so much - when i fly a gunboat, i m usually loosing ( every one on one fight that i won was a great feeling - due to its rareness ) - mind you, it was not the ships fault, cause i know that others did much better with the same ship.
Corsair gunboat with 8 cerberus is... stupid at least.
You can shoot for 4 seconds. That is not an advantage.
The most that you can mount on Corsair gb and shoot properly is 4 cerberus.
Everything above that is stupid, not because it's strong, but because it's weak.
LH Gunship is something else. It can use 6 cerberus with great effect, as he can use all his energy, and then dodge and make circles around ordinary gb, while energy is recharged.
Corsair gb can't do that.
4 cerb max, 3 optimum.
Because, it is much more a capital ship then the other gunboats.
Slow, more turrets, great hull.
It has to shoot all the time.
So, your Scorpion gunboats has 8 turrets and 4 of them are cerberus?
That is the best possible combo for a gunboat with 8 turrets.
I'm not flaming over here, just answering this :
Quote:Had I sought pure advantage over the enemy my GB would have been equipped with eight cerberuses
One point on the subject about gunboats + cerberus.
Maybe the way to actually nerf cerberus, is to nerf a gunboat, in a way.
For example, slow his energy recharge a LOT.
Then, you will be able to shoot cerbs as they are now, but you'l be waiting a long time to shoot them again.
This can force people to use more energy efficient weapons.
And energy for most weapons should be changed.
Because, cerbs are the only ones that can actually use energy.
If you fire 8 Order turrets, your energy doesn't drop.
Or make Gunboat Battle Razor and stuff like that more useful.
Or you can bring the energy back as it was in 4.83.
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for bringing energy usage of cerbs back to what it was in 4.83. It was ideal there.
There are various optimal loadouts for many ships out there, including gunboats. On the same level we can talk about bomber loadouts, fighter loadouts, any loadouts. There are templates, so to say, a lot of players all around use optimal settings. However, optimal doesn't mean the best depending on the situation and the opponent ship/loadout you are facing. For some it can be best, for the others may be not. It's a matter of how you feel it I think.
p.s. for example my lib gb (in signature below) have only two cerberus.
' Wrote:and again, i d point out that - if every ship bigger or equal to a gunboat/ship had no shields, but only hull, it would balance itself. ( provided we got rid of the "suicide-insurence" )
I've said it before and will say it again... I really like your idea Jinx.
' Wrote:I've said it before and will say it again... I really like your idea Jinx.
Tend to agree as well, but to a certain extent: such major change will require modifications to all current capital ships, as they'll need something to compensate the lack of shield. Perhaps even going through all capital ship weapons as well and many things, a lot of work here, and I'm not entirely sure if the idea is worth going through all that.
mmmm..the whole idea to tone down the gb shields and armour is interesting..least if the consensus is that gunboats are purely anti-fighter ships.
My raven with 2imp and 2adv debilis..cant even dent a gb shield. And thats with it sitting still and just letting me shoot at it forever.
However, the developers gave them cerebrus turrets. Which makes me think they also have a role as an anti-capship ship.
Still liking the whole tone down cerbrus thing and manuverability thing the most.
I know 2 fighters, with time, can pretty easily pick apart a RH gunboat at the moment. If the more twinky gunboats could get closer to that I'd be very happy.
Well keeping a Gb's shield down isnt that hard, fir 8 razors in a row and its down... i kept a Gb shield down for fun, while taking fire from all 6 turrets... its easily dodged and i can line up for a razor shot while dodging. In theory if he would have sat there, i would eventually be able to simple razor him to oblivion. (this was a friendly situation, not hostile)
"War. War never changes. Since the dawn of human kind, when our ancestors first discovered the killing power of rock and bone, blood has been spilled in the name of everything, from God to justice to simple, psychotic rage."
Two-three fighters with Sunslayers or Mini Razors can wreck havoc with a group of anti-cap GBs. Similarly, a few cruisers and bombers can pound the anti-fighter ones into oblivion. WHY are you trying to nerf ALL Gunboats? Two Adv. Debs and two Imp. Debs should NOT be able to do much to a GB. They have enough trouble with a Transport, and it's not even a military ship! No. Sorry people, but this looks like childish and PvP-whorish whining because YOU don't know how to hurt a gunboat! Ask Razr, or anyone who's been in SA at least half a year, it is NOT hard to defeat a gunboat if you know how.
Yes, the Cerberus' and the Gunships ARE overpowered. They NEED to be nerfed. HOWEVER! Does that mean that ALL Gunboats need to be nerfed? Of course not, that's ridiculous! That's like saying that because one Rheinland Bomber used to be able to single-handedly take out a BS, that we should make ALL bombers die if they fired their Torps! It's completely ridiculous!
Honestly, I have NEVER seen a thread on balance get as ridiculous as this.
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