' Wrote:- A little overdone with lasers - they are too badass now so all weapons slower then 5.33 are now not really great, especially that touches slow 2.0s
What? 2.0's are still the strongest guns. Lasers still require a certain flying patter to be used at their max. Which is good.
' Wrote:- Werewolf is op, greyhound is op.
What? They're just fine. Werewolf is still big and Greyhound is actually a VHF now.
' Wrote:- Solaris are useless
Yeah. Especially the gatling ones. I mean what the hell is their purpose anyway?
' Wrote:- Giving Rouges own Inferno is meh, i can't get why it was done. Inferno was always an OC toy and no one's else. That was making sense, but now we are throwing infernos around like it's some regular MR.
I think Rogues having Inferno is OP mostly because of Werewolf.
' Wrote:- Shieldbusters are now screwed. Along with the whole shield idea were people had to decide to sheld themselves from hull busters or from shieldbusters, now it's too damn easy and not surprising.
Not just that, but, I found it to be more effective not to use shield busters at all anymore. Combine different types of hull busters and you will get the same shield damage with more hull damage.
I agree with the other stuff that was listed.
As for my own feedback that I didnt see Curi list, the Sabre is still OP and its still a major problem. You didnt nerf it correctly/enough/at all. Its the same situation with it in group fights as well. But I already told you this.
Wraith is still a big problem. It doesnt require a brain to be flown.
Fix Corsairs somehow. Sair-OC conflicts are still unbalanced in terms of ships/guns.
- A little overdone with lasers - they are too badass now so all weapons slower then 5.33 are now not really great, especially that touches slow 2.0s, slow 4.0s - they are loosing badly to lasers.
Some 8.33's are fine, some are too far up. I agree. But not on the part that they outgun 2.00's. Since they already had a big head start when it comes to damage than any other fighter weapon.
- Werewolf is op, greyhound is op. Used to fly both in 4.85, yes, they were np for me and also yes, they'v deserved some buff amongst with lasers but it was clearly overdone.
It's not the ships that are overpowered, but it's the Samuels used on them in my opinion. Werewolf is a good Super heavy fighter. Which is the first now in Discovery. So adept your fighting plans.
- All independent Ided folks are now kinda screwed, maybe it will be good to change the nerf ratio for freelancers\mercs\inditraders\indiminers\indipirates to make them a little bit better, now they are thrown to use generic things with generic guns or codes.
Joining a group should have advantages. Working alone has often disadvantages. I approve of the independents to be nerfed down as they are now. (Yes half of my stuff is Freelancer/merc/pirate/etc.)
- Buckshots are still crap.
I still use them on my hunter. They are okay not epically good, neither really bad.
- Hammerhead need it's armor to be buffed, it's not small and 7900 is too low, from my pov, any HF with AU8 mounted and with full armor must be able to survive MR or nuke.
It should have a small armor buff yes. However a 7000 armor vessel can survive a nuke. Even though it barely makes it.
- Solaris are useless
suggest a improvement point?
- CM are not working effectively on BS missiles (Any time i tried they have failed)
I experienced no issues with CM not working against Battleship missiles. All worked perfectly fine as they did on .85
- Flaks are bugging down all torps\missiles
That's the point if I recall correctly.
- Two points above messes up the idea to make BS missiles to be anti capital weapon - now fighter is not able to throw them down effectively from his tail with CMs but they still fails a big way against a BS with single Flak. From my POV flak must be able to blow them up not to bug their tracking.
If you target a missile it's possible to CD these. And as I said, I had no experience with cm's failing.
- Glady is actually a VHF, so have to go in that category with armor buff, it's too huge and slow for HF despite it's sweet loadout, actually i didn't saw any gladiators for months, that tells something.
Being able to have a mini razor and CD makes this a unique ship. It's fairly quick too. I don't see this ship needing a buff. In my honest opinion.
- Big gunboats are now useless a bit time, with stearing lights are dancing around them with no problems. So all imperators, bret gbs and so on are still up. (That point is questionable since I'm not a big fun of gunboats, so that may be different)
Imperator proved to be more than a match for several bombers. If you get the turret steering under control and are able to pin the enemy with your firepower. Give it some time to have people get their turret steering under control.
- Sabre is np, but again, it was nerfed not in the way it had to be nerfed.
What nerf:D
- Giving Rouges own Inferno is meh, i can't get why it was done. Inferno was always an OC toy and no one's else. That was making sense, but now we are throwing infernos around like it's some regular MR.
And this is bad because?
- Prosecutor is huge for it's stats, kinda not fanny.
this makes me tired. All voices I heard from it, that is was a proper ship and added as it was submitted.
- Generally all factions with slow ships and slow guns are now screwed against factions with lasers in their disposal, huge ships are eating damage like a cake. But we are getting back to abovementioned problems.
Name me a faction with slow ships? If we talk about Corsairs. Well they have rather impressive heavy fighters. If we talk about Bretonia. Well their Templar has a lot more potential in combat than for what I see mostly on how it is used.
- Shieldbusters are now screwed. Along with the whole shield idea were people had to decide to sheld themselves from hull busters or from shieldbusters, now it's too damn easy and not surprising.
Even though stats are changed they have the same effect, this point is rather invalid if you ask me.
First of all - before we get started. I'm not taking into consideration the pilot's skills. I'm trying to talk not about myself because it's bad for balancing. Some people are bad some people are good, equipment must be balanced without taking it into account.
Some 8.33's are fine, some are too far up. I agree. But not on the part that they outgun 2.00's. Since they already had a big head start when it comes to damage than any other fighter weapon.
You need to remember that 2.0s are Class 10 guns, there is no class 8 guns which outguns class 9 guns - if there are any - that's a bug. But now they are giving pretty huge damage output and also hitting with 750 ms 8.33 is a way easier then with 2.0 600\650 ms. Both requires some skill and training, but with 750 it's till easier.
It's not the ships that are overpowered, but it's the Samuels used on them in my opinion. Werewolf is a good Super heavy fighter. Which is the first now in Discovery. So adept your fighting plans.
WW was a very good ship for rogues as it was in 4.85, was able to pirate alone, be on par with VHF in duel. But then you have to run from police. Now it's a vessel of destruction with all mighty sammaels and with own Inferno. Can't wait to see some WW soloing a cruiser.
Joining a group should have advantages. Working alone has often disadvantages. I approve of the independents to be nerfed down as they are now. (Yes half of my stuff is Freelancer/merc/pirate/etc.)
Difference is - any faction on discovery must have own pros and cons. Independent Pirate can be shot by local pirate groups and developing own diplomacy and fame with merc\pirate\fl takes some time and must be rewarded as well since it drives RP.
I still use them on my hunter. They are okay not epically good, neither really bad.
I use them as well, they are ok for me, but as i mentioned above, we can't talk about ourselves. Those got some really low damage output and having extra 50 speed do not justify them having 60 and more less damage output and being powerhungry.
It should have a small armor buff yes. However a 7000 armor vessel can survive a nuke. Even though it barely makes it.
Nuke makes less damage then MR, but HFs are usually almost as big as VHFs, so they must be able to survive the MR hit.
suggest a improvement point?
Solaris are crap and useless, what else to you need? They were np only after placing 9 of them on Osiris, now they are useless.
I experienced no issues with CM not working against Battleship missiles. All worked perfectly fine as they did on .85
I did, so if there is no bug in it then it's np.
That's the point if I recall correctly.
Flak must blow up the missile, not to big it's tracking.
If you target a missile it's possible to CD these. And as I said, I had no experience with cm's failing.
My experience is different, had 2x missiles after me dropped around 30 CMs with no effect, so had to just evade them with maneuvers.
Being able to have a mini razor and CD makes this a unique ship. It's fairly quick too. I don't see this ship needing a buff. In my honest opinion.
If you'r good in this ship dosen't means that anyone will be good in it. Sure, i can fly many ships with no issues and i don't really care. But this ship deserves a buff and that's not only mine opinion.
Imperator proved to be more than a match for several bombers. If you get the turret steering under control and are able to pin the enemy with your firepower. Give it some time to have people get their turret steering under control.
If you get the turret steer you can be match for bomber on any gb, the point is that on some ships even an idiot will be successful while on some ships you need to train really hard to be able to be on par with idiots.
What nerf:D
And that's the point. It was nerfed but I can't find any difference. That's not exactly a nerf 8|
And this is bad because?
If it's not bad why we don't make Civilian Inferno? Or Buff civilian debs to Tizonas? We do not do that coz those guns are exclusive toys of the factions. So the gun mountable on torp slot which deals alot of shield damage was an OC toy. Now it makes no sense. Where is my BHG inferno then?
this makes me tired. All voices I heard from it, that is was a proper ship and added as it was submitted.
You can't submit stats, you can submit a model. Model received stats which doesn't match with the it's params. Anyway, i fought prosec only once and he was just running that time so can't say. Anyway from pics presented it's clearly seen that it's really huge.
Name me a faction with slow ships? If we talk about Corsairs. Well they have rather impressive heavy fighters. If we talk about Bretonia. Well their Templar has a lot more potential in combat than for what I see mostly on how it is used.
Corsairs, that's the first that comes to the mind. Titan is slow, both their guns are 600 ms, Order and LSF got some slow ships as well, Nephil and Avenger, but those also have an extra choice in form of bastet or guardian and vnegince* rippers (or how's they are called) in guns. So you can take what fits you. For Corsairs there is a Titan and there are Salamakas - That's all. And since i'v left sails and corsairs generally i do really care of balance issues.
Even though stats are changed they have the same effect, this point is rather invalid if you ask me.
They do screwed, see the post above. It's easier to just mount full hull busters with different gun types and you'r done. Take the shield down is still ok but then you don't have 2 guns less for having a talk with the hull.
So, I don't think it would be unreasonable to request a buff for the Barrager. Preferably in speed and dps. Don't forget that a Collector has only 5 guns pointing forward (two of them being turrets).
Quote:- Hatchet is rendered useless with no having backshooting guns and even the only heavy slot is not 360*, so people may run for kamoinu or whatever is that new BC because it's a way better.
Quote:- Kusari Bs's weapon arcs are joke 8)
Approved and approved.
Kudessie heavy slot do not turn 360... how it can shoot while running?
Ku BS prim slots.... lame lame and lame... why it need 4 prims if it can fire only 3 at once at any direction?
' Wrote:Kudessie heavy slot do not turn 360... how it can shoot while running?
It can't that's the point, it still turns very fast and it still is very small for a destroyer. I'm sure these advantages can be put to good use as I have been flying one without the ability to fire heavy guns backwards for 4 years.
The turret view steering makes it a bit worse vs other cruisers but still with that fast turning it's not like the other cruisers will get behind it.
Quote:Ku BS prim slots.... lame lame and lame... why it need 4 prims if it can fire only 3 at once at any direction?
Kusari BS has a front profile of a medium BS with powerplant/armor/lvl10 slots of a big battleship. Can't have only advantages.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
' Wrote:Kusari BS has a front profile of a medium BS with powerplant/armor/lvl10 slots of a big battleship. Can't have only advantages.
I can tell the same about Valor:D Front profile of med bs but it packs heavy punch of rest stuff.
Okay.. you want to "balance" it that way... then why we need 4 if only 3 can fire? make 3 and give 1 more slot for something else... or is it only for "number" "look it have 4 turrets.. just like others... it balanced good"
Oh and while we on topic.... KuBC exchanged 2 heavy slots for speed... I'm ok with it, but why BHGBC have 4 and 140speed too?
BAF Destroyer is a pretty good ship overall but it has fewest number of turrets in its class, only 2 of the heavy turrets can point backwards, and only half of the light turrets can point backwards. This gives it very limited capability against ships that get behind it, I have even lost to gunboat because I could not do more damage to it than it did to me from back there (this was with BAF turrets). The whole problem here is that it has few turrets to begin with, they are in awkward places (like under the snout), and very few of them have any rotation at all. By comparison, Rheinland cruiser has more turrets, in good locations, and most of them have full rotation. Even though the BAF destroyer is weird, I think the only tweak that is needed for balance is to give the side turrets full rotation (2 already have it, other 2 do not). It would also be nice to have the 3rd heavy turret get full rotation to make it the same as the others, but at a minimum the light turrets on the side should all point backwards.
LABC is OP. Look at the number of people buying them--if everybody uses something then it's OP. It has too many advantages: most turrets, ability to fire battleship weapons, huge powercore that can fire all weapons simultaneously, and a small profile. The profile and battleship mounts are all it needs. Delete two of the light turrets to bring its local defenses in line with other cruiser platforms, and cut the powecore by about 20% so it can fire the three battleship weapons but not every weapon.
The IMG| would kindly ask for the following ships to be revisited:
1. IMG Very Heavy Fighter Lothse
Many in IMG| think that the VHF is underpowered for the kind of ships that we meet/compete/fight. We did some calculations on the stats.
We chose those ships that the IMG fights most (Sabre) and also took ships that are known as "really good" and that the IMG encounters in their Omega operations (Wraith) or uses themselves (Eagle).
Statwise, the Lothse should be more agile than the Sabre, but it underperforms in reality.
It is easy to hit in comparison with good VHFs like Wraith and Sabre.
It lacks 1 gun compared to the Sabre
Armor, bats/bots and power core are (sadly) largely irrelevant for balancing because in a VHF fight, the one lives that can avoid being hit over a longer period of time. The IMG fighter cannot do that as well as the others.
We would like to have a VHF that can really play in the same league as the other good VHF.
We do not want to have a mediocre or okay-ish VHF, but we think we should also have a good one. The Lothse is okay now, it can be flown, but most IMG| want to go for the Eagle (after testing the Lothse) or will go for the Nyx as soon as it is clear what final tech nerf for IMG will be. Both are better choices... which is sad.
It feels as it has been in the last version: IMG has the weakest fighter in Taus. It barely outperforms the very agile Council Basilisk bomber (!) in reality, and no way it can kill it when it goes evasive. It is is also no match to the good VHF in the Omegas (Wraith) and Taus (Sabre). When fighting the unlawful Gallic HF, a slow craft that is easy to hit performs even worse.
It's a bit frustrating, really. Thus we would kindly ask to revisit the IMG VHF again and give it some chance to avoid fire equally well as the Sabre/Wraith does. It does not have to be an Eagle, but it should be in the same league with good VHFs.
2. IMG LF
With stats that are the same as the Nomad (it was checked, it really has these stats), it should be really agile, fast and with the MR capability we expected it to be THE IMG ship to fly.
No one can find an explanation why it does not in reality. Perhaps the ship's mass is a factor, some suggested.
Another thing could be that it is classified as: "ship_class = 3" which is VHF
We could not find a reason why it does not perform like a LF in the stats. We did some comparisons with ingame performance of the CR-LF, and the CR one is a real LF.
So we would also kindly ask for the LF to be tested because we think it does not perform as a LF should.
3. IMG small transport
As the size seems to be too small for a transport (there was a size comparison in another thread and it has been ticketed already).
You could change it into a freighter and adjust cargo space and equipment accordingly (so it would only mean a statwise change, not a model resize).
Statwise, the transport version has too little cargo space to be used anyway, whereas a freighter could have some real use in the IMG line.
Thank you for trying to respond to all the suggestions and questions.
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