RE: The sanction of the Hess/Bret Combined Forces BattleGroup

[Rodnas]

Short thing to throw in the middle: has anyone really LOST a CAU yet? I only hear folks complaining that somebody maybe migth lose a CAU - but how many really had that bad luck?

Is it about future uncertain possibilites? To my understanding most of the fleets left already, so there still might be some latecomers, but those will fly under the radar anyway...

Still, shooting any unarmed, unarmored poor guy on his way home is lame and in ALL Corsair chats i a m in has been labeled as such and everyone was advised not to do it. So it might be the playerbase is not so stupid as some of you might expect...and as there is a lack of posts from people claiming "i lost my CAU" i think we have an overreaction from folks who weren't even there or didin't lose anything.


=> more common sense+more playing together instead against each other + more rp = more fun + less hatery

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Read about: The Benitez Familia and Trueno Benitez

---Not available for any disco stuff these days(and for an extended period of time to come, too ---

[Stoat]

I was in Deltas last night, watching. I saw two corsair vessels leaving the area with additional CAUs in their holds, so yes, unfortunately this did happen.

The whole situation is unfortunate, and a fairly sad reflection on Discovery as a whole.

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My Stories

[kikatsu]

I suppose that the loss of so much equipment and the general chaos around this event is meant more as an embarrassing measure of punishment rather than the normal administrative responses of stripping the ships themselves or beaming them to Bastille for a week.

Or as a way of deflating the supposedly ballooned economy.

Either way I guess it is worth saying that there is a chance for those stuck in the Omicrons to get back without loosing equipment, just log in at non-peak hours.

Still, the punishment is strange. The situation that spawned it was crazy with the sheer amount of Hessians that were brought in, a good chunk of them being battleships.

Personally I think the Hessians should never have showed up there. Bretonia is in a state of war, and is loosing resources, it would make sense if they had to make a tough call of either blockading the station or defending Leeds from Gallic attacks... Liberty has stepped up to help but no other groups besides the Exiles really offer the kind of military support to knock out the base, save for maybe the Mollys, who are the unlawfuls that should have shown up to help destroy the base.

But as a result, I think we both know what is going to happen...
King's Cross will be assaulted by a combined Corsair and GRN fleet. As long as they do not group it is legit, yeah? :sleep:

[sindroms]

What I, as a bystander in all this, want to ask....what were the official factions doing at the time, since I see a fair number of indies there, who were dragged into this mess, while being sure that if the official factions were doing this, they could as well.

The way the sanction was dealt with...is perhaps not the best way, no, but I really think that whoever organized this mess should be the one held responsible.

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[Vladimir]

133637
INFOCARD
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-16"?><RDL><PUSH/><TEXT>The Hessians and Corsairs are fighting a bloody war down south of here in Omega-5. They are battling for control of the Border Worlds between Rheinland and Bretonia. The Hessians are expanding -- and that brings them into the Corsairs'€™ Artifact shipping routes to Bretonia. </TEXT><PARA/><TEXT> </TEXT><PARA/><POP/></RDL>

Here we go, another reason. This time, vanilla lore.

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[Dashiell]

You should keep in mind that the Bret/Hess fleet being there was completely ooRP in the first place. That's like saying it's your character's logical action is to shoot down an enemy you just beat in PvP 5 minutes ago, while all he's doing is trying to leave the system.
Before anyone jumps to silly conclusions like this, you should try to rethink some things:

1. The punishment was completely out of proportion. Keep in mind that the sanction was not for destroying the Corsair base, it was for the bretonians and hessians allying by joining the same group. Believe it or not, the base would've been destroyed either way. Hence, you cannot compare the loss of Puerto del Infierno to the loss some of these sanctioned players had out in the Omicrons, possibly losing up to billions of credits for a little flaw in how they handled the RP side.

2. The punishment was inequal. Some may manage to escape the Omicrons, some may barely lose anything, because they only have cheap ( C ) AUs unmounted, others will lose, as I mentioned, material they must've worked dozens of hours on to get them. And this is in no relation to the delicts actually commited. The admins had no way of telling if *that* battleship is more to blame for it than *this* fighter and should lose his way more expensive equipment, instead, they decided to just do "the same" to a group of players who were in the same group. Note the quotation marks, because I just pointed out in this paragraph that the punishments weren't the same at all.

3. The corsairs have nothing to do with the punishment. As I mentioned before, the players weren't sanctioned for destroying the corsair base. This would've happened with or without the Hessians. They were, apparently, sanctioned for violating their own ID regulations by joining a group with each other. The corsair have no entitlement to revenge based on this at all. With their base being in enemy space, they should know what expects them, and this can't be compared to a bunch of players being placed by an admin sanction to be farmed by the corsairs in a helpless situation.

Lastly, I also want to criticize the way this was carried out by the admins. This:
Note how the players were deliberately placed in Omicron Lost to have them go rough a bottleneck jumphole out in space. This situation wasn't only abused by the corsairs, it was planned by the admins. And on top of all that, do you think a good way to show that they shouldn't ally with each other is by forcing them into another battle against the same mutual enemy yet again, requiring more teamwork? I can't quite follow that logic. Also, I think "redistributing" equipment as part of an inappropriate revenge act is quite a bad idea. The corsairs shouldn't be abusing a sanction to get equipment that doesn't belong to them. If you look at the situation the other way around, if someone told me a player was banned to Omicron Lost with his *very very expensive* equipment unmounted to expect to be lolfarmed by his enemy and lose it, I would think "Hmm... He must've commited quite a bad rule violation". Rather, you put that fate in place for roughly 40 players, even though it was merely someone making the quick decision of inviting the Hessians to the group everyone was in. I've had a little experience with administrating a server from other games, and while they may not be full with 200 players at a time, I knew not to put admins with sadistic tendencies in place to carry out sanctions. Really, this sanction statement makes more sense coming from a movie supervillian announcing his evil plan over a hijacked radio channel to bring panic and despair across the audience than an action a neutral admin should carry out.

That's all I have to say from my side.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Especially the last, bold bit. This was indeed handled (very) poorly by the admins.

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[JayDee Kasane]

So the fact that a few Hessians showed up we should be sanction by loosing billions in equipment. I admit the Hessians should not of been there but the fact of the matter is the punishment is not equal to the crime, we frequently ally with the Mollys (in the same group etc) against the Corsairs and GRN yet I've never seen our group beamed to Lost with our armour unequiped?

Because Mollys can allie with BAF to fight off enemies to Bretonia. Mollys are same defenders of Bretonia as BAF, but less ''official''

Getting more allies, friends, neutrals and whatnot instead of enemies when you can do that.

You know. Common sense.

Hessians it seems really greedy when it comes to number of allies. IMG, IC, Unioners, LWB, Bundshug, Mollys, probably Liberty Rouges and Outcasts sometimes. And few non-vanilla factions too.

Common sense you say? I dont see any common sense in pirates of Rheinland allied with Bretonia lawfuls to pew Corsairs in Bretonia space. Its like Farmer Allience with LN pewing Xenos in Colorado.
Hessians must not have anything to do in Cambrige like AD already sayed Here.
Hessians must fight with Corsairs in Omegas and RM in Rheinland.

Also, I still not recieved any answer from you regards ''what expect from Corsairs?''. You always trolled anything that consitst Corsairs-Hessians and never was able to say anything that would confirm your words as true or non-hateful. madvillain agreed with me on that account. all my posts regard Hessians was at least less hateful and more about ballance. I used to be a Hessian for 1-2 mounths. but Im no more want to be there because of players almost.

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[Redon]

Short thing to throw in the middle: has anyone really LOST a CAU yet? I only hear folks complaining that somebody maybe migth lose a CAU - but how many really had that bad luck?

Is it about future uncertain possibilites? To my understanding most of the fleets left already, so there still might be some latecomers, but those will fly under the radar anyway...

Still, shooting any unarmed, unarmored poor guy on his way home is lame and in ALL Corsair chats i a m in has been labeled as such and everyone was advised not to do it. So it might be the playerbase is not so stupid as some of you might expect...and as there is a lack of posts from people claiming "i lost my CAU" i think we have an overreaction from folks who weren't even there or didin't lose anything.
=> more common sense+more playing together instead against each other + more rp = more fun + less hatery

Okay, right... Being one of the first ones who got out of there, I made myself a new restart corsair character just to watch the situation... I was invited to the corsair chat group so I accepted. I kept myself as a neutral observer, i didn't say much, I didn't warn anyone about anything on the other side either. Just... watched. So I would know what I'm talking about when I say this:

Still, shooting any unarmed, unarmored poor guy on his way home is lame and in ALL Corsair chats i a m in has been labeled as such and everyone was advised not to do it. So it might be the playerbase is not so stupid as some of you might expect...

In your imagination maybe. In fact, I've watched everyone position at jumpholes, with messages like "Hah, if i heard right, they have their weapons and AUs stripped so they'll be sitting there like ducks and we can get our revenge" Yes, that's what it was like. I'm not exaggerating. No sign of "decency" or anyone saying "listen guys, this isn't right".
And FYI, i've heard multiple people brag about how they managed to get a CAU from someone.

I was not going to mention this and I certainly won't call any names, partially because that was never my intention, partially because I don't remember, partially because it was such a unified mass of oorp revenge that it's hard to tell who's responsible for what. All I meant to do is to look at it for myself, and if I see posts like yours here I just can't leave it unmentioned.

[Slartibartfast]

I think the sanction itself was strange - even though I believe Bretonians letting Hessian caps roam around Bretonia was pretty damn stupid. Even more stupid though IMO, were Exiles shooting a Corsair base. Last I checked, weren't Exiles supported by Samura, who are somewhat of a Corsair ally, right?

So yeah, it was stupid and ooRP, but is more stupidity and ooRP (which the sanction did apparently generate) really the answer to that?

[Lonely_Ghost]

In your imagination maybe. In fact, I've watched everyone position at jumpholes, with messages like "Hah, if i heard right, they have their weapons and AUs stripped so they'll be sitting there like ducks and we can get our revenge" Yes, that's what it was like. I'm not exaggerating. No sign of "decency" or anyone saying "listen guys, this isn't right".
And FYI, i've heard multiple people brag about how they managed to get a CAU from someone.

Another step from fun to hate...sad enough.

And FYI, i've heard multiple people brag about how they managed to get a CAU from someone.

It's not such great lose, if its CAU 1-5... In other way its....(lost of bad worlds).

I think the sanction itself was strange - even though I believe Bretonians letting Hessian caps roam around Bretonia was pretty damn stupid. Even more stupid though IMO, were Exiles shooting a Corsair base. Last I checked, weren't Exiles supported by Samura, who are somewhat of a Corsair ally, right?

So yeah, it was stupid and ooRP, but is more stupidity and ooRP (which the sanction did apparently generate) really the answer to that?

+1