Perhaps, if Keepers communicated with one another, in open chat?
Broadband telepathy or something....then other people would feel like they were rping, because, as it is, I gotta admit, lots of people are seeing no evidence of it, in a faction where one of the stringent requirements is a solid RP background.
Perhaps, perhaps I will decide myself what and how I will shape in which form I choose to. I do not feel like telling fairy tales when being shot by everything that moves, thank you for your concerns though.
I stated from the start: find methods to communicate with the Nomads if you wish to do so. There are many possibilities, but we are not going to do lazy RP just for the sake of providing some kind of "evidence" here for their pleasure. Nomads aren't very talkative unless they have a good reason to. Too many players feel too many different things, we can't cater to everyone's feelings, end of story. Find means, find way to make them being interested in conversation, it's not that hard if you think of that, but tendency is that people come with guns blazing, nomad equipment, and then demanding conversations? Sorry, that's just not going to happen like that. No demands here. I opened many possibilities for those who can read closer, opportunities are there waiting for people to use them - do I have to force them to? I think not.
' Wrote:Perhaps, perhaps I will decide myself what and how I will shape in which form I choose to. I do not feel like telling fairy tales when being shot by everything that moves, thank you for your concerns though.
I stated from the start: find methods to communicate with the Nomads if you wish to do so. There are many possibilities, but we are not going to do lazy RP just for the sake of providing some kind of "evidence" here for their pleasure. Nomads aren't very talkative unless they have a good reason to. Too many players feel too many different things, we can't cater to everyone's feelings, end of story. Find means, find way to make them being interested in conversation, it's not that hard if you think of that, but tendency is that people come with guns blazing, nomad equipment, and then demanding conversations? Sorry, that's just not going to happen like that. No demands here. I opened many possibilities for those who can read closer, opportunities are there waiting for people to use them - do I have to force them to? I think not.
Granted - you can't cater to everyone's feelings, that's a fair point, not everyone is going to be happy - one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
No one was saying tell us fairy tales - and i certainly wasn't. My only criticism was that personally i haven't seen a whole lot of evidence of in game Role play from the keepers faction. So, im not sure what you mean by "lazy RP" in your comment because showing up into a system in cap ships, not saying a word to anyone and then pwning everything that comes into range seems... no offence... a little like lazy RP to me.
I understand it's technically in character for a nomad - but one has to only read through these forums to realise that one faction flying around and PVP'ing everyone they meet is usually branded with the dreaded label of "PVP whorage" - there have been quite a few examples of this kind of thing with some of the "newer" cap ship factions that seem to be springing up, they don't talk, they wander around and when they cross someone who is an "enemy" they kill them - now I'm sure they can say "well, Corsairs are enemies of the outcasts" and use that to justify the reason why the went into PVP.. but come on.. that's just convenient and has about as much RP depth as the "i stole it" excuse for dodgy ship owners.
The thing is, i realise that my comments here reflect only my personal experience with the keepers faction, i actually find the concept of playing a nomad faction really interesting. I am going to take you up on your suggestion in game to try and interact with the faction - Unfortunately right now Treewyrrm i have only your word and some (pretty interesting) stories on the forums that suggest there is more than just PVP'ing going on in game.
But - your point is taken, and i am quite willing to eat my words and stand corrected if other players who are NOT in the keepers faction can tell me that their experiences in game have consisted of more than just having their ships blown up. Or they have actually Rp'd with the faction, and not had to fight for their lives!
Laowai, there are too many people trying to put labels on other factions around, it is something I don't do myself and not care at all if anyone does that to me. Mainly because such labels carry only the experience of the issuer, which, let's be honest, often made out of very personal interpretations (like getting killed for carrying nomad cargo and then crying out for RP fairy tale, yes, it happened on several occasions in game, documented in screenshots archive). If people don't make step towards us in roleplay then tell me why should we? Because we did, yet only small percentage of players responded, most came only to fight, so let's put it this way: statistically speaking people who come after the Keepers most of the time seek only PvP, as such they don't put much roleplay into the game themselves and after being beaten it is quite hypocritical to accuse the Keepers in the absence of roleplay. We really would love to have more conversations than what we have but people come to shoot us, not to talk, they want something to kill, to have their name shining in death message, killing a nomad player. The Nomads don't insult in roleplay, it's one of the fundamental rules of our roleplay concept, so when someone come in, starts to insult in roleplay and expecting to have some nice reply - no way, you'll just find yourself getting hunted and killed without us saying a single word. Occasionally we may put some metaphorical snide PM in game, but we don't do roleplay just for the sake of meeting some abstract quota for RP messages to avoid "labeling", we don't have that and never will. So, for as long as people will keep doing that we'll keep killing them, simple.
Those macros-like "yes, sir!/roger that/etc" replies, something that NPCs repeat whole time that you just turn off voice volume not to hear same actor saying same phrase every minute. We don't put them obviously. Nomads don't talk like that, they don't talk much compared to others and I see no problem with that, I'd rather have a few surreal well-thought conversations provoking imagination, improvisation, rather than have "same old" spoken over system chat just to show that you roleplay.
Our roleplay may manifest itself not just through typed text in game but in actions as well, we can just come to station and make no single shot, observing, watching, it's a part of our roleplay as well. Strange things may happen, but we can't do it too often otherwise the effect will become rather too common and will tend to repeat itself.
And personally I haven't seen much roleplay from you either. So far I've only seen corsair cruiser coming after us and being shot. No attempts to communicate were detected whatsoever. I'm afraid it's not an attempt to establish any roleplay, coming with only PvP will only get you only PvP in return, no more no less.
Suffice to say there were much more, but no reports or stories were made at all. I'm afraid it's not our problem if people choose to keep their experience within themselves not sharing it to the community in form of roleplay stories. It's their choice, not ours, we cannot force them to and will never do.
All those and more are listed in faction post, to me it sounds like people don't make any research before coming up with ridiculous labeling. Why should I care if some ignorant person do that?
but its hard sometimes - i remember cheshire being attacked on sight. she has no nomad stuff on her - no nomad sample, no nomad gun, no nomad powercell, no nomad thruster. - she had not been aggressive, but been approached on sight and shot on. ( she approached the keepers the same way the keepers approached her - face on, scanning once in range - then circling around and leaving )
i could think that cheshire "might" have a reputation not to be approached friendly by keepers, but she hasn t had too much contact to them - one fight against two caps and thats it.
saying you are fed up with people not roleplay with you will result in people not roleplaying with you cause you approach them without much roleplay now. i know that there have been peaceful encounters - BUT - i cannot sit peacefully "inchar/inRole" and wait for a keepers capship to blow my bomber up. uncertainty will result in hostility - which will result in less roleplay. it might work better, when there were more fighter encounters that means ... less dead on sight encounters. - of course people would act differently when facing a light fighter - instead of facing the multiple scorpions or the battleship.
the roleplay at the start of the keepers was good. now its not really existant anymore. in the last 5 encounters that i was present in one form or another ... i only "heard" like 3 phrases - other than that, the chat from the keepers side was silent. - dont get me wrong, it fits... but understand that people will not do anything anymore but to defend - and sooner or later - with all they have...
edit: i can understand that the persephone is attacked on sight - i am rarely found without nomad samples, and Jinx herself .... well, i don t know how the nomads would really differentiate but i could undertstand that, too - however, Jinx will allways retreat or only fight with a fleet, a heavy fighter just is no match against a Wild gunboat or bigger.
Persephone will be attacked regardless of nomad samples onboard. Pretty much like any other large combat vessel. We've had policy of not attacking any ship showing no hostile intentions without nomad samples, but when people figured it out they started to abuse it, stabbing from behind and then complaining after that they were attacked in return, all without any nomad samples. So the policy has been taken down and left primarily only to traders, anything else is pretty much a valid target. The larger the ship the more attention it gets due to increased potential threat. Smaller ships tend to have less attention to them and may as well be ignored entirely while passing nearby. I've had just enough of those "peaceful" trader-battleships around. If you cannot sit peacefully and try finding approach to talk then why asking us to do that in return, eh? If you are so uncertain then don't look for a contact, but then don't come and say that we don't roleplay. Like I stated long time ago - every contact is a potential risk, do not look for something that might protect you, in rules or anywhere else. Which reminds me of you using docking on Gammu and then undocking to get away with samples, a little loophole that after much discussion with admins has been closed down.
p.s. Cheshire had more contacts than that I'm afraid, specifically when it was BH destroyer. Carrying nomad samples around, hunting nomads in Alaska. So yes, you certainly have earned reputation on that character I'm afraid.
that is why i asked you - "when do those reputations expire" - if carrying a sample means a lifelong KoS - then... i am afraid ... most people won t have any ambition / reason to try roleplay anymore. most people that are present in delta go there for nomads ( not keepers, but NPCs ) - of course they won t try to communicate anymore, if they are kill on sight anyway..
and most of those people are not really inRole to assist nomads to make up for it. with that in mind, its natural that a BHG would first go for a nomad, before a corsair when those 3 factions met. i am unsure if thats really beneficial.
edit: same issue with police KoS lists - they must expire at some time.. to avoid pointless pvp
Reputations expire depending on observation of the character, the actions and other parameters taken into account. Show your compliance and may be, just may be, you will be removed from the hunt list, it is entirely at our discretion. If people think they can go hunt nomads, carry nomad cargo around, and after a while come up white and have nice conversation then I'm afraid you are wrong here. No. You don't have to hunt nomads, you don't have to carry nomad cargo to have dialog with them, in fact you are most recommended NOT to do that at all. People come for nomad equipment, to hunt nomads and then to expect roleplay conversations? Hello?! Do you, for example, as unlawful character going to expect lawfuls to have nice cup of tea with you next month after you have killed forty civilians right in front of them?
Of all the factions in the game the Nomads with their hatred towards humans would be the ones to remember offenders for a very long time, it would be very unwise for you to have them to take notice of your offending actions if you plan to ever talk to them.
May be next time we should ask LSF, Liberty Navy to talk buddy-buddy with Terrorists, Lane Hackers, Liberty Rogues, call for amnesty. You come to our areas, killing our populace and expect us not to attack you in return but talk instead? Where is logic in that? Persephone and Cheshire are the terrorists in our eyes (or rather unknown sensor organs), a threat that requires elimination as quickly as possible. And remember, you choose the role of your characters yourself, and you are responsible for them, so don't put that over to us and then say like we're having less RP convos and more straight PvP hostilities as some sort of an issue, remember, you screw it yourself, we only provide feedback for your actions, the consequences. So may be next time you'll try to be more responsible to your own plans if you don't want to screw them up, but we aren't going to close our eyes on such abuse obviously, and telling that the Keepers have less RP towards you isn't going to help the situation I'm afraid. There can be no excuse, it's plain black and white here. Much like NPCs remember offenders via reputation system we have that as well.
As regards priority of targets, people choose those themselves, if they choose not Nomads but other enemy - good. Who knows, they might be looking to use nomad presence to their advantage, which is not ooRP but shows how cunning their characters really are, and that's fun as well. So if you play some really sick bastard you might as well help the Nomads in battles.
' Wrote:And personally I haven't seen much roleplay from you either. So far I've only seen corsair cruiser coming after us and being shot. No attempts to communicate were detected whatsoever. I'm afraid it's not an attempt to establish any roleplay, coming with only PvP will only get you only PvP in return, no more no less.
All those and more are listed in faction post, to me it sounds like people don't make any research before coming up with ridiculous labeling. Why should I care if some ignorant person do that?
Mate - to use your own logic against you there - the only reason you didn't see a whole lot of RP from that Corsair character was because every time he has encountered Keepers was when he was being shot at, or his friends were being shot at and in those situations he won't "stop for a cup of tea" as you say.
I'll put my money where my mouth is where that character is concerned and i know for a fact that i RP with him all the time - ask any of the Corsairs loitering around Gamma and they will back me up. That though is beside the point as from your perspective your comment is valid.
I realise the Keepers faction is probably hard to play, it was good to see some examples of the RP that has occurred in the past (thanks for the links) - I'm not sure if the "not doing any research" comment was leveled at me but i assure you i had, if my research was incomplete it is because these forums are quite large.. and it is difficult to find very specific information at times.
As i said, i was only commenting on my own personal in game experience of your faction in game. I know I'm not the only player that has raised an eyebrow about the way keepers do things - but the fact that yes, there are examples of some RP out there makes me feel a little less concerned about it.
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