(05-21-2013, 07:39 AM)Interspace Wrote: When you demand 5 million credits from me, you get the generic "oh really? Isn't that a bit much? blah blah". When you demand 10 million from me, you get absolutely minimal RP, you're trying to ruin my fun, so I'm going to try to ruin your fun.
However, demand something like less than 1 million credits, or some RP demand, and I will RP with you like a pro, there will be a good time had by both me AND you, and usually, I'll give you a generous amount of credits just for being a cool guy.
You clearly state that the size of the demand has a dramatic impact on your willingness to RP. 1 million demand = you will RP like a boss, 5 million = pirate will get "whiny" RP, 10 million = pirate gets minimal RP. I think that's poor form from a supposed veteran.
Quote:Statistically, lower demanding pirates tend to have a better RP
(05-22-2013, 10:55 AM)Anaximander Wrote: You clearly state that the size of the demand has a dramatic impact on your willingness to RP. 1 million demand = you will RP like a boss, 5 million = pirate will get "whiny" RP, 10 million = pirate gets minimal RP. I think that's poor form from a supposed veteran.
Basely, yes, however his RP is a very modifying variable on how everything plays out.
When some pirate demands 15 million credits, you automatically think "oh, one of THOSE pirates, just in it to get as much money as possible with little regard for RP", so the tone of RP is already set from past experience. It's not as much of a conscious decision on level of RP, as much as it is subconscious.
(05-22-2013, 10:55 AM)Anaximander Wrote:
Quote:Statistically, lower demanding pirates tend to have a better RP
Really? Where did you find that data?
From playing in various trade factions for the last 3-4 years and a large majority of my characters being traders. I've had more than my fair share of pirate encounters, and some of the best and funnest encounters I've had have been with light fighter pirates and low demanding pirates. One of the best being SeaFalcon's old troll-LF pirate, quite lulzy and fun.
(05-20-2013, 01:57 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: They don't have a 3ker logged there, normally. The hassle is much too much to guard the cargo, then sell rather worthless cargo. I don't believe that normal "Drop all cargo or die!" pirates care to actually get a transport and sell the cargo. If you do, kudos. You really play a role then and you try to act as if it was a real situation.
I am in many Skype channels, and it's about once per week that someone calls "Can anybody pick up cargo at X?"
And when this happens, it is always about high value cargo, never about npc-npc-base cargo.
This is more because cruisers and stuff shoot transports at first place now, and transport cloak is useless for escaping together with nerfed Ptransp this 3 facts make the Transport Piracy from 4.84/5 useless in 4.86 Also I wont mention that the pirate can just TS with GB and have it all, in my old piracy guide I wrote that GBs are useless for Piracy compared to Ptransp now it is otherway around.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
I'm completely new to Discovery (and Freelancer in general) so my opinion may not hold much weight. But, regardless of the fact that demanding the entirety of my cargo in cash is kinda... stupid, there's the fact that at best you only have "rights" to what you can carry of my cargo. In OP's example I lose 500k either way (regardless of if something goes down later on that causes me to die, or get pirated again in the case of paying 12 mil, which also wastes time anyway, as you'd have to complete your circuit instead of just going back from that point) however, in one, the pirate gets the full worth of my cargo in straight credit, and if he dies or something happens, he still has it, and now the trader has the burden of finishing the flight to sell just to break even and lose all their time.
The other example, the trader just throws out his cargo (maybe shoots it if he wants to just make the pirate made, or something) and the pirate can only carry what his ship can hold, giving him considerably less profit, and he now has the burden of having to sell the items himself, making the pirate use his time, instead of forcing the trader to take even more.
I'm just not sure why you think in any form of piracy ever, a pirate should ever get more than their ship can carry. Especially IRL, you're not exactly loading more than your boat can actually carry, you take what you can and leave. Why should you get the full value of it?
Regardless, like people said, it just sounds like you're ruining peoples time demanding a high amount of money, should you make a bit of money? Sure. I have no idea how long these paths take for traders to do money like 12 million, but if it takes, say, 30 minutes, and after 20 minutes you demand a good chunk of money relative to the amount of cargo you can even hold, I'd probably just try to be as inconsiderate as possible, as you're doing of me.
If I need to expand on a point or something I'll try, like I said, I'm pretty new, so my knowledge of the actual workings is pretty lacking, but I just don't see why anyone should ever demand more than they can hold in actual goods, and it should be less actual straight cash just because it saves you both time and trouble.
Yeah there is an unspecified limit on demands though, and it its a sanctionable offence to make "unreasonable demands". So unless someone asks you to drop all your cargo* you can never be asked to cough up your entire cargo's worth in credits**.
With those rules you will always profit when you pay the pirate. Some runs you will profit less due to getting pirated, but other runs you will meet no pirates and get your full cargo's worth, and in the long run the credit loss to pirate demands will be balanced out pretty evenly; compared to choosing to get smashed and reset to zero. Of course if you run into 2-3 different pirates on your trade route you can end up with no profit when you have paid them all, but you have to be either extremely unlucky or extremely incompetent for that to happen.
* Generally speaking I think pirates in transports are allowed to steal whatever they can hold, also when that means your entire cargo.
** Certain ID's have the dreaded "May treat as combat target" line on them and can demand anything they want and still blow you up. Those ID's are mostly lawful though, and thus mostly a problem when you are smuggling.
@SMG: Yes ok I was playing the devil's advocate. I do know the "15 million now, 3. 2. 1. Engaging!" type pirate, but at the same time I don't think piracy with high demands should be automatically written off as poor rp by the trader in question.
You wouldn't believe the amount of bad attitude you receive by traders when you pirate them, everything from "//this is rp server, you don't rp!" to PM whining to abusive name-calling.
I think it's important that we do our utmost to make players understand that piracy is an integral part of both the roleplay setting and the gameplay, and that pirate players aren't non-rp'ing douchebags by default, even if they ask for a lot of credits (within reason naturally).
As I mostly trade over pirating, the demands for 15mill or anything over 1/2 my cargo value I would rather destroy my cargo than pay simply because - if I paid then the pirate wins and I loose. Also the fact I loose my cargo - unless it's a ore shipment is irelavent. Ore shipments are the only cargo I have to pay more than 1000 a unit for - hence why I am likely to pay otherwise I just have to choose a diffrent route
No guarantee you won't be pirated again before you reach your destination.
And I actually hate cargo pirates more than cash pirates. Because if they are unreasonable and lol8m, I get blown up, I start over. However cargo pirate, I then have to fly back empty to pick up my stuff.
I pirate sometimes, but the credits are really not the main deal-- if there was no RP in pirating, I wouldn't do it. BORING.
The only point to pirating without RP would be showing you could outsmart traders with your ambushes, positioning, timing, teamwork, tactics, etc.
Too often it's just a pirate showing off their superior firepower to a transport (duh) or how much of a demanding a-hole you can be (count downs, ultimatums). If you're going to do that, you might as well be law enforcement. Thats how the po-po act when you're smuggling artifacts.
A pirate should have more flair, elán, Captain Jack Black in him/her.
You are calculating the cost/benefit of submitting to demands as if this were REAL MONEY. Its not. The only value to credits is how it furthers my RP-- that includes buying a ship and guns, but just so I can have a ship/loadout that matches the RP/affiliation I am representing.
An actual loss in credits might be a gain in RP.
One major gain is that if a pirate is coming at me like a homeless panhandler with no reason for his demands or countdowns other than he'll shoot me, I can refuse on principle unless he dances for his supper.
If he decides to give me some backstory, jokes, jibes or bluster and really inhabit his pirate role, I'll pay him. He usually shoots me first, but I'm still sticking to my guns and demanding RP. The result? A little bit more RP on the server.
If I give in, maybe its cheaper than replacing my cargo, but I've sold out. I let some no RP pirate hack win out.
I have enough panhandlers in my RL city without encouraging them online. At least make me laugh!
(05-20-2013, 11:33 AM)Anaximander Wrote: Well sometimes you have to say "2milordai" because simple questions such as "How much is your life/cargo worth to you" baffle a lot of traders. "2milordai" is ALWAYS my opening line, for the sake of simplicity and declaring my intentions clearly.
What bothers me though are those traders that refuse to pay out of principle, because that forces me as a pirate to either do douchy things (such as blowing up the insolent trader) or suspend all roleplay and let the guy go out of my good (player) heart.
As for the 12 million and full cargo in the original post; yeah a trader isn't likely to pay 12 million based on just his expectation of profit when he reaches his destination - what if another pirate is waiting in the next system asking for another 12 million?
Not long ago, I read a post on this forum about "Trust" being a valuable commodity. If you don't TRUST that trader you encounter by actually RPing, you have no soapbox to stand on when he ignores you and flies away or refuses to pay. If I encounter you (ships name is The.Grand.Illusion, and you open up with that, heres how it will go down:
You: 2milordai
Me: //Are you serious?
You: 2millordai!!!
Me: //3 days....
//3 days I have been flying up and down this trade route...
//3 days of boring trading, no player interaction outside of "Koneecheewaa" (yes, I know its spelled wrong, I spent 2 years in Okinawa IRL, THAT is what another player actually said to me), "hello", or "greetings"...
//I FINALLY encounter a pirate, and the extent of your roll play is "2millordai"?!
//SCREW you! Im LEAVING! If you want my money, next time give ME some better roll play.
FIN.
I'm NOT kidding. If I encounter ANY pirate that wants my money, I will NOT pay him, YES, OUT OF PRINCIPLE, if the extent of his roll play is "2millordai".
Please do not misunderstand. Im not judging you. Perhaps I have not been playing long enough, and have not yet become jaded by the lack of effort from other players to take this RP concept seriously, or by the games design flaws, or whatever, but I will NEVER treat RP in this game so disdainfully, no matter WHAT the rest of the community does. If I did, I would only be adding to the problem.
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