Quote:Many of its members came from all over Sirius, from all walks of life and has made them able to be flexible in all aspects of Sirius life.
Their knowledge and experience comes from their backgrounds, those backgrounds include traders, miners, smugglers, house naval personal, construction experts, scientists, specialist equipment engineer's, mechanics, freelancers and pirates.
Quote:smugglers, house naval personal
Quote:pirates
What? just what? Pirates, smuggles fine but house military would NEVER work together with a unlawful force..
Well I have to disagree with you here. It is like saying that two members of different religions can not work together, even if those religions were haters of each other (as they usually are) (btw, I am not religious myself, but that does not matter).
For example one of my characters "swaped" factions from "lawful" to "unlawful", because he became to see, that his "lawful" faction was depicting the "unlawful" faction a bad bunch of terrorists, while they were actually trying to help people.
And especially in omicrons, people are one big coctail of "all-you-can-find".
And it also depends on which faction you meant as "unlawful force" in your last sentence.
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Also, on the ZA military topic, I would love to add that I like the idea of Zoners having an "independent combat-capable force", for it would make no sense if it did not (Order has better things to do than to waste pilots on escorting zoner transports, doesn´t it?").
I would just suggest trying to think about it in RP-terms more in-depth, because as you can see, people find "Zoners with guns" weird. If a group of a few dedicated, combat-loving pilots would appear, flying around in fighters and bombers, a few gunboats and maybe lead by a cruiser, or hell, even one carrier or Nephilim (which would act as the "faction special ship"- that would be understandable!). Such ship would be, lets say for RP sake, made somewhere in secret. That I believe would be RPwise and understood by the community.
The problem is that suddenly there were so many caps with [ZA] tag flying around, that it simply made no sense inRP.
I believe you had a good intention, but played your cards very badly. If only have you spent more time in RPing your presence and idea of securing the jumpholes of system, which lets say for RP "you believe should be zoner guard system and those who were to guard it let it to fall to others´ hands and this you don´t like", I have no doubt this would turn out in a very nice RP story.
But instead it turned out this way and instead of fun RP, it made many people, on BOTH sides of the barricade, DO and SAY bad things.
While it might not be possible for you to fix things, I hope you will do better in the future and put more effort into your work (which seemed very promising to me). Instead of acting somewhat childish, which you, my apologies, did.
BDM| ships were flying around the Omicrons as part of non-combat research RP fluff, because we wanted to take a break from the other pvp related RP that we engage in elsewhere.
Contrary to what the various [ZA] members are posting and PMing around, the BDM| did absolutely NOTHING to antagonize the [ZA]. The accusation that a lone gunboat was used to siege a core 4 base on its own is as hilarious as it is downright wrong. The accusation that the BDM| was taxing [ZA] transports and the various ID'd [ZA] alts is false - since the BDM| only operates against Lib corps and criminal smugglers in that fashion. If you would like to continue making baseless accusations, I would suggest that you make them less baseless and have evidence to prove it. After all, if Rheinland was so intent on causing hell for you before this event, it's rather strange that you contacted us to deal with your issues with the official Zoner factions, almost as much as it is strange that you've stated that you haven't had much interactions with us in the past (while claiming that we've been acting against you for all this time).
The bottom line is, you were both inRP and oorp TOLD to contact us with an explanation or risk dealing with a severely unhappy Rheinland. You decided not to, and instead accused us of "metagaming for our skype buddies" or something or other. You were given a very reasonable rp demand of the crew and captain of the [ZA] juggy that deliberately went out of its way to shoot at our ship without even a word. Instead, you disrespect the diplomat sent to speak to you by demanding to speak with the Bundestag when I've specifically TOLD you both in and out of RP that our message was given while we were representing it.
Here is what will happen. The [ZA] will own up to its mistakes and apologize, and comply with our very reasonable demands without being an utterly insufferable git that you've made Tri-Udent to be now, or we'll assume that the [ZA] is deliberately harboring war criminals, and was complicit in the [ZA]Tritain's acts of war.
Oh, and for your information, the TAZ and Phoenix were CC'd in the message because this incident was concerning a Zoner ship in a system that is generally of high interest to the Zoners. Please don't accuse us of metagaming when we included them in on what was happening, especially given what you tried to pull with house military factions.
Also, leave all justifications and "hate" for thr rp process, otherwise it looks low how it is brought later on the forums in numerous not related to the rp posts.
Trolling is where both sides loose, but once again, the rp process itself shall not provoke the conflict once the game is played.
But I don't know how much civil both of the sides here - community and the ZA.
Let's see what it turns in.
(07-05-2013, 10:33 PM)EisenSeele Wrote: Let's make this abundantly clear.
BDM| ships were flying around the Omicrons as part of non-combat research RP fluff, because we wanted to take a break from the other pvp related RP that we engage in elsewhere.
Contrary to what the various [ZA] members are posting and PMing around, the BDM| did absolutely NOTHING to antagonize the [ZA]. The accusation that a lone gunboat was used to siege a core 4 base on its own is as hilarious as it is downright wrong. The accusation that the BDM| was taxing [ZA] transports and the various ID'd [ZA] alts is false - since the BDM| only operates against Lib corps and criminal smugglers in that fashion. If you would like to continue making baseless accusations, I would suggest that you make them less baseless and have evidence to prove it. After all, if Rheinland was so intent on causing hell for you before this event, it's rather strange that you contacted us to deal with your issues with the official Zoner factions, almost as much as it is strange that you've stated that you haven't had much interactions with us in the past (while claiming that we've been acting against you for all this time).
The bottom line is, you were both inRP and oorp TOLD to contact us with an explanation or risk dealing with a severely unhappy Rheinland. You decided not to, and instead accused us of "metagaming for our skype buddies" or something or other. You were given a very reasonable rp demand of the crew and captain of the [ZA] juggy that deliberately went out of its way to shoot at our ship without even a word. Instead, you disrespect the diplomat sent to speak to you by demanding to speak with the Bundestag when I've specifically TOLD you both in and out of RP that our message was given while we were representing it.
Here is what will happen. The [ZA] will own up to its mistakes and apologize, and comply with our very reasonable demands without being an utterly insufferable git that you've made Tri-Udent to be now, or we'll assume that the [ZA] is deliberately harboring war criminals, and was complicit in the [ZA]Tritain's acts of war.
Oh, and for your information, the TAZ and Phoenix were CC'd in the message because this incident was concerning a Zoner ship in a system that is generally of high interest to the Zoners. Please don't accuse us of metagaming when we included them in on what was happening, especially given what you tried to pull with house military factions.
I think you are mistaken if you think you get get to the omicrons un-harmed , from what I can gather, your picture" shows you hostile to that za fella, with other ai's shooting him in the background, tell me, what do you expect? - Rhienland should not have any intrest in the omicrons, whatever "rp" you facbricate should not even be considered rp because its WAY far from the suggested/accepted/outright insane zoi.
Let's all agree you wanted to jump on the wagon and see things yourself and now you whine about it. That did not stop from your BDM friends to make another visit just to make it legit. LMFAO
Now, I realize that seeing as many players in the system chat monitor, one wants to participate, but do not cover it up with "rp" - I am no fan of ZA either but I think twice before I get to accuse someone. And I think this thread should have been closed by now, Alrighty. Closed.
Well, BDM is an int. agency, so it is their job to poke their nose all over the place.
Though they should do it less obvious, I think...
If there is a rp background at what had happened - then it is okay.
And if not, the only suggestion is to rp harder.
You realize that the BDM is the Buro der Marineintelligenz, which is the intelligence branch of the Rheinland Governemnt. Maybe take a gander here before you make yourself look bad by not reading up?
As an intelligence branch, their ZOI is pretty much Sirius wide. Also, the ZA created the perfect reasoning for the BDM to go there. ZA messaged Rheinland, saying Zoners are working with Order. Rheinland pretty much said they didn't care, but by doing so, made the Omicron systems on the BDM's list to gather intelligence as to what is going on out there. So they have every right to go there, every right to have an interest there based on what the ZA did inRP.
Also, since when do you not agree with ZA or are "no fan of the ZA"? Based on a post by Zoner-Trader, you as David Dir are in the ZA. So I'm confused. Which is it?
I feel this inrl inrp mixture of facts that is completely false however I acknowledge it is suscpious. Still, BDM has its duties to gather intel but lets be clear about this, the timing of which this lone gunboat decided to gather intel equally suspicious. I still don't realize in what kind of a buble do these people live on, you should be expected to get shot when you know its a "war zone" and when it comes to the omicrons, the greater embarrassment is that he actually wants an apology inrp and some compensation, Intel is gathered silenty, and I don't think your government should even admit your involvment there. This CIA-Pakistan scenario worked perfectly fine until he decided to actually admit he was there and admitted rhienlands intrests there. Point blank
Quote:the timing of which this lone gunboat decided to gather intel equally suspicious
It's one gunboat. hardly suspicious, yet when traveling to the Omicrons inRP or ooRP makes sense that it is a gunboat, because its a dangerous place. And this War-Zone? It was a NFZ for traders in Omicron 74. Plus, according to the ZA, they set their stations to neutral with most, thus bringing the fighting to a stand still. They claimed neutrality, and as such, so did the Phoenix. Omicron 74 is now supposed to be a neutral system as far as people flying through once more and NOT locked down.
So, War Zone? Show me where it is posted that all the Omicrons are at war with one another. There are posts alluding to a war, but nothing set in stone, and majority take place in 74 not the rest of the Omicrons. Which, 74 is one of the only ways to get into the Omicrons without pissing off Order, Outcasts, or Nom noms. And lastly, the timing? Did you not read what I said? The timing is perfect. The ZA messaged Rheinland, which made the Omicrons of interest or worthy of checking out, when it is brought to their doorstep. Say someone tells you about someone you know who was in a major accident. Do you ignore it and just go off what they say, or do you go online, look at news articles or something to see what is going on, instead of hearsay? If you say the former, you're lying. So why is it so far fetched that it happens inRP.
So again, your argument is invalid. And from what it sounds like, he WAS trying to fly covertly or without uplifting any stones as it were. If they wanted to get involved, don't you think they would've brought in a big-ass force of ships? One gunboat seems perfectly legitimate for RP'ing a scouting mission to obtain information.
Quote: Intel is gathered silenty, and I don't think your government should even admit your involvment there
Until that ZA ship shot him, it was silent and covert. Again, it was ONE gunboat! You know how many times one BDM gunboat shows up in Liberty scouting? I don't see any posts about it on the communication channel besides this one, do you? Also, it's not like the Rheinland government proper commed the ZA. It was the intelligence service themselves. Hardly the "government" admitting anything. It was sent to ZA, and included two other groups of Zoners. Again, doesn't seem that public to me. It was between BDM and Zoners.
Hey, since we're a fan of examples and illustrations, lets try this one: Say a spy goes scouting and gets caught. Either A) The government denies involvement. Ok, yeah, could happen. But B), the Government could also covertly enter into discussions with said force holding their agent captive, to negotiate the return. What I am getting at, is that the BDM messaged an encrypted comm to Zoners because of an attack on their vessel that showed NO sign of hostility and was there scouting. Plus, is it that hard to imagine that when the ZA messaged them, they would not send a scout to confirm what the ZA said? So, you message someone, then when they try to validate the message, you attack them. Suspicious? Yes Tel. Very suspicious. Funny how if you are not a fan of the ZA, you are defending them like crazy/calling out others. I could care less, just don't say one thing, and contradict yourself in the same post(s).
Anyway, I am rambling and covering over the same points multiple times. I need a beer after all this.
Quote:the timing of which this lone gunboat decided to gather intel equally suspicious
It's one gunboat. hardly suspicious, yet when traveling to the Omicrons inRP or ooRP makes sense that it is a gunboat, because its a dangerous place. And this War-Zone? It was a NFZ for traders in Omicron 74. Plus, according to the ZA, they set their stations to neutral with most, thus bringing the fighting to a stand still. They claimed neutrality, and as such, so did the Phoenix. Omicron 74 is now supposed to be a neutral system as far as people flying through once more and NOT locked down.
So, War Zone? Show me where it is posted that all the Omicrons are at war with one another. There are posts alluding to a war, but nothing set in stone, and majority take place in 74 not the rest of the Omicrons. Which, 74 is one of the only ways to get into the Omicrons without pissing off Order, Outcasts, or Nom noms. And lastly, the timing? Did you not read what I said? The timing is perfect. The ZA messaged Rheinland, which made the Omicrons of interest or worthy of checking out, when it is brought to their doorstep. Say someone tells you about someone you know who was in a major accident. Do you ignore it and just go off what they say, or do you go online, look at news articles or something to see what is going on, instead of hearsay? If you say the former, you're lying. So why is it so far fetched that it happens inRP.
So again, your argument is invalid. And from what it sounds like, he WAS trying to fly covertly or without uplifting any stones as it were. If they wanted to get involved, don't you think they would've brought in a big-ass force of ships? One gunboat seems perfectly legitimate for RP'ing a scouting mission to obtain information.
Quote: Intel is gathered silenty, and I don't think your government should even admit your involvment there
Until that ZA ship shot him, it was silent and covert. Again, it was ONE gunboat! You know how many times one BDM gunboat shows up in Liberty scouting? I don't see any posts about it on the communication channel besides this one, do you? Also, it's not like the Rheinland government proper commed the ZA. It was the intelligence service themselves. Hardly the "government" admitting anything. It was sent to ZA, and included two other groups of Zoners. Again, doesn't seem that public to me. It was between BDM and Zoners.
Hey, since we're a fan of examples and illustrations, lets try this one: Say a spy goes scouting and gets caught. Either A) The government denies involvement. Ok, yeah, could happen. But B), the Government could also covertly enter into discussions with said force holding their agent captive, to negotiate the return. What I am getting at, is that the BDM messaged an encrypted comm to Zoners because of an attack on their vessel that showed NO sign of hostility and was there scouting. Plus, is it that hard to imagine that when the ZA messaged them, they would not send a scout to confirm what the ZA said? So, you message someone, then when they try to validate the message, you attack them. Suspicious? Yes Tel. Very suspicious. Funny how if you are not a fan of the ZA, you are defending them like crazy/calling out others. I could care less, just don't say one thing, and contradict yourself in the same post(s).
Anyway, I am rambling and covering over the same points multiple times. I need a beer after all this.
One flaw in your fairy-tale, the gunboat himself sent a message to those ZA, I think you might find it in the communuication channel. And yes, I take measure on both sides, you could use as well, seeing every post is against one group with self-rightouess indignation. Point blank, the gunboat was less then 2km away from that za nephil, while the others were pounding it. The Gunboat's rep sheet is somehow "unfriendly" with that za vessel therfore I would shoot him as well. There is no " hold on lets see whos shooting and whos not " - given that he was right infront of him. For a man who can speak much, you know nothing about such situations aren't ya?
Debating why he shot him is pointless, he shot him because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, You want to argue about that ( clearley every ZA topic gets your blood pressure bubling ) argue about it with the wall.
Quote:The Gunboat's rep sheet is somehow "unfriendly" with that za vessel therfore I would shoot him as well. There is no " hold on lets see whos shooting and whos not " - given that he was right infront of him. For a man who can speak much, you know nothing about such situations aren't ya?
So you are trying to put an OORP situation into RP? I have chars who are red to other factions, but aren't actively at war with one another. Doesn't mean I RP that I am hostile to them. I have a Zoner char who is Red to Colonials. I must be against them inRP, right? Yeah no. Just means my Rep is not friendly to them, and I haven't spent the time to adjust that. Again, your argument is invalid.
I say I disagree with a lot/most of the ZA's actions, but I want to deal with it ingame, inRP, and I am willing to see it out/willing to give them some chances, but they have a lot to work at to make amends for what has transpired. But who doesn't have to work at it. Hardly what you said below:
Quote:every post is against one group with self-rightouess indignation
The whole point is that you said the BDM had no right to be there, and made claims that, sorry to say, were wrong. I'm also not saying i'm some shining example and everything I say is right! I don't. I can be wrong, and I accept that. But the difference I see, is that I can acknowledge when I screw up/ do something wrong. I've seen extremely few instances of accountability on the other side. But, as I said, I'm all for seeing it handled ingame.
Also, my blood isn't boiling. I'm not angry or upset. Just tired of everything going on. But don't expect me to sit by and not voice my opinions either. I want to have fun in a VIDEO GAME. So when it stops being fun, I'm going to do what I can to bring back the fun. Can we agree on that at the very least?
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