Proposal: Remove Battleships from the Zoner ID.

[Huhuh]

There were infact two zoner groups in vanilla, though I never said they were under one banner. Zoners of House space, and zoners of Theta. Now let's leave that aside and let's focus on your "reasoning" - Zoners much like IMG are capable of constructing capital ships, infact I would say more ( granted corsairs ) - Though it is not mentioned in any book or wiki that doesn't mean they can't - much like your precious councial, who stole blue prints of the valor, legit so far, but producing them in masses? talking about capactiy alright - End of story, do not attempt to legitmise this proposal by saying zoners cannot afford it because they can - Thank god your not a dev.
Have a bad day t.

Could you please define a Zoner?
We have to get the fundamentals right before we can go any further.

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[tothebonezone]

Zoners much like IMG are capable of constructing capital ships, infact I would say more ( granted corsairs )

Did you miss the part where I made a post about there being only a few thousand Zoners settled ALL OVER THE ENTIRE SECTOR?

If I remove all of the Discovery bases, there's probably less than 10,000 settled Zoners with NO SHIPYARDS AT ALL.

Livadia is their only ship yard. The only one. There's no other. It was added in Discovery.

How are you capable of building capital ships MORESO than the sheer manpower that an entire planetary population would have?

Please stop posting, and maybe consider playing Vanilla again. Dromedaries were the biggest ships Zoners got.

Zoners of House space,

Also, no, you're being stupid. There were Zoners who travelled to House space to get any resources they needed or to trade, but none of them were 'of house space'.

The Zoners are basically a bunch of people who couldn't agree with House space life, and went out to the uncontrolled parts of space, built stations, and lived where no one else wanted to.

In fact if we want to get right down to it, MOST Zoners, are space hobos, who live in their ships. Good luck building anything in a dromedary.

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[Zen_Mechanics]

Theres more than 10,000 for sure, and even if not - start being realistic, disco is not reality - gunboat requires a spaceship crew - fighters need fuel to get to one point in a system to another, yet magically they can do that - its all within the disco objective to enhance the original FL - some use sense when it suits them, like the guys here - some dont - you know, like the bible.

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Were fools to make war on our brothers in arms.

[tothebonezone]

So what you're saying is--

WHY YES SARONSEN, I'M AWARE THERE'S NOT NEARLY ENOUGH ZONERS TO BE MASS-PRODUCING BATTLESHIPS, BUT I, AN IGNORANT CLOWN WILL IGNORE THE FACTS, FOR THE SAKE OF 'ENHANCING' FREELANCER.

Get out dude. A gunboat might require a crew, but that's an entirely different matter than a hundred people ever so much as considering building a battleship. Let alone ten.

And no, there's 15,366 Zoners on all of the Zoner stations in Discovery. Go ahead and try and prove me wrong there, I'll wait.

Zoners in space, unfortunately for you, cannot exactly be building a ship on a shipyard. They're in space, somewhere else.

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[Vrabcek]

And no, there's 15,366 Zoners on all of the Zoner stations in Discovery. G

In that case there should be at least 15,366 zoner battlesheeps , because zoners are an OP krieggroup

But seriously now. Hell dammit, the zoners do not need a battleship, they rely on neutral diplomacy towards others and considering nomads they rely on their friends there.

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[Echo 7-7]

... the question was "is it plausable" - Yes it is, much like any other BW faction.

No two factions are the same. Capabilities are not defined by the region in which you operate (though equipment that you are able to make is usually going to be tailored to that environment).

We shouldn't forget the zoners were at one stage or another somehow combined and united, now they are not. Look they have the shipyards to construct such vessels, how it came to be is something that should be addressed by perhaps the devs, but this is a situation that can be traced to other factions aswell , only were stamping zoners at the moment

Zoners were never united (as corrected by earlier posters).

Zoners have only one shipyard, and that still is in a Guard system and is ergo non-lore. While other vanilla factions which did not have shipyards in vanilla now have Guard system shipyards producing Capital Ships, Zoners are by far the worst offenders and abusers of the privilege they have been granted. You perpetuate the myth amongst yourselves that the ships, which since they are by game mechanics battleship and cruiser-class, are warships - which they are not.

There were infact two zoner groups in vanilla, though I never said they were under one banner. Zoners of House space, and zoners of Theta. Now let's leave that aside and let's focus on your "reasoning" - Zoners much like IMG are capable of constructing capital ships, infact I would say more ( granted corsairs ) - Though it is not mentioned in any book or wiki that doesn't mean they can't - much like your precious councial, who stole blue prints of the valor, legit so far, but producing them in masses? talking about capactiy alright - End of story, do not attempt to legitmise this proposal by saying zoners cannot afford it because they can - Thank god your not a dev.
Have a bad day t.

@ two zoner groups: Already corrected earlier.

IMG are somewhat lacking in terms of explaining Capital ship manufacturing as well as many other factions; however, they do have a lore recognised non-Guard system shipyard in Omega-3, as well as having a very strong economic basis in the raw materials sector.

The Council did not steal the blueprints to the Valor. Far from it. The Council's main warships are stolen or captured, but mostly captained by defectors from the GRN. Council ships are in fact older than their closest GRN counterparts, who have notable technological superiority. Additionally, the Council has control of an entire Gallic system locked down as a veritable fortress; due to the ultra-high military industrialisation of the house this provides them with significant facilities that the GRN still struggles to crack.

Does a single Zoner, group of Zoners, or entire Freeport have enough money to invest in a capital ship-sized vessel? Possibly, depending the circumstances (which are highly variable between Freeports). Do they have the manufacturing facilities to construct such ships as a one-off or in extremely low quantities? Maybe. Continuous production line? Definitely not.

Theres more than 10,000 for sure, and even if not - start being realistic, disco is not reality - gunboat requires a spaceship crew - fighters need fuel to get to one point in a system to another, yet magically they can do that - its all within the disco objective to enhance the original FL - some use sense when it suits them, like the guys here - some dont - you know, like the bible.

Undoubtably, the population numbers for all factions have increased notably since vanilla. This is directly attributable to the 'style' of development lead by Igiss in previous years (for better or for worse). Consequently, the Zoner population can be postulated to have increased, comfortably into the order of hundreds of thousands. The ambiguous semi-Zoner populations of Erie and Gran Canaria could comfortably push that number into the millions. But the Zoner population, however large, still represents an extremely small segment of the total Sirian population. Both the Outcasts and Corsairs are comfortably an order of magnitude more populous than the Zoners, and they again have the industrial advantage of having that population concentrated in close proximity, and with relatively focussed leadership driving their actions.


The argument here is not, in fact, "The Zoners cannot manufacture a ship the size of the Nephilim", as this is implicitly possible in the environment of the Discovery mod - under certain conditions. However, the true issue is that Zoners (in general) have repeatedly abused access to Battleship-grade vessels and must be stripped of that access. They have perpetuated their own myth amongst themselves that they have comparable quantites and capabilites of ships to other militarily-focussed factions that they believe it to be true. The Nephilim, Aquilon, Fearless, and Corvo are not warships: They are colony ships, carriers, armoured transports, and research/survey vessels accordingly. They cannot be manufactured in quantites or at rates remotely similar to factions which are militarily-geared. They cannot meet true warships on the field of battle and hope to win without serious losses - and besides, the only thing Zoners should be fighting are the native dangers of space.

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There was a sig here, once.

[Pinko]

I've not read a single post in this thread.

Honestly, just slap battleship on every ID. Let HIm sort them out.

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I want to get off Mr. Igiss' wild ride.

[Duvelske]

However, the true issue is that Zoners (in general) have repeatedly abused access to Battleship-grade vessels and must be stripped of that access.

Echo its not only Zoners.. The point it its more easy to notice Zoners ships abusing it. Or well misusing it without even knowing it. I have seen all sorts of different ID's using their respective bs ships. Many did violate it with saying 0 words before engaging.

You are right with the part its not everyone, but a certain amount. That amount is basically caused by the players who just do not care for RP or are too new to be fully aware of the ongoing RP or the RP behind the said vessels or factions.

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[RedEclipse]

Zoners have only one shipyard, and that still is in a Guard system and is ergo non-lore. While other vanilla factions which did not have shipyards in vanilla now have Guard system shipyards producing Capital Ships, Zoners are by far the worst offenders and abusers of the privilege they have been granted. You perpetuate the myth amongst yourselves that the ships, which since they are by game mechanics battleship and cruiser-class, are warships - which they are not.

It's not guard system anymore. It's lost the status as Omicroners were disbanded. So 74 is Disco canon.

And I agree what Lady said.

[Daedric]

Had a big long post, but them it hit me.

Doesn't matter. Zoner players can come up with a million and one reasons they need cap ships. Non Zoner players will come up with a million and one reasons they shouldn't have them. Doesn't matter unless the dev team picks a side.

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