[BU] - Bundschuh

[SimonBlack]

I met [BU]. Seem RP-ish, well adapted, know the server. You have my support on the matter.

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Character background summaries:
Red Hessians Major Matthias Schwarz
Golden Chrysanthemums Chusa Fumiko Shimazu

[beander2]

Very thorough. I was intrigued by the Bundschuh even in the SP campaign, so this looks very interesting.

Within an RP context, is there going to be a political problem with trying to ultimately be a legal political party, yet deliberately targeting military and corp personnel who are by and large working people (in a fascist regime, often forced to work in that capacity)? Would that delegitimize your claims, or does it not matter here since the goals will probably never be achieved in-game?

Also, isn't your diplomacy situational (probably for many of us)? I mean, you're "hostile" to RM and only unfriendly to, say, Liberty forces. However, if Liberty were to encroach upon Rheinland space, you would support RM kicking them out, would you not? In other words, in that case, RM would do now what they would do even under a socialist regime. Does this make sense?

Sorry to be overly nit-picky, but these political aspects are interesting to me, and for good RP, somewhat important.

Take care,
Trevelyan

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Sir Alisdair Buchanan, KBE ~ Gateway)Trafalgar

[Dopamino]

That's always a tough question for any pirate faction. I think the logical choices are to either just stay out of it until there is a clear winner or to backstab and undermine both sides as much as possible.

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I mostly lurk around Media Center these days.

[Gryph]

Within an RP context, is there going to be a political problem with trying to ultimately be a legal political party, yet deliberately targeting military and corp personnel who are by and large working people (in a fascist regime, often forced to work in that capacity)? Would that delegitimize your claims, or does it not matter here since the goals will probably never be achieved in-game?

The People have been made aware of the crimes of the State. We may pity them; we may even forgive them, but we cannot allow them to support the monster that Rheinland has become.

The Workers will not be harmed. It is the soldiers and the capitalists who oppress our people, and in killing them we serve the Workers.

[beander2]

The People have been made aware of the crimes of the State. We may pity them; we may even forgive them, but we cannot allow them to support the monster that Rheinland has become.

The Workers will not be harmed. It is the soldiers and the capitalists who oppress our people, and in killing them we serve the Workers.

Is this what goes on in a fascist state? I'd suspect the People often don't know much at all because they're too busy trying to survive, and no accurate source of information reaches them. The rank-and-file soldier and/or commercial pilot (both arguably "workers") also don't have much of a clue, and (especially with the soldier) is usually pressed into service. The "capitalists" aren't the ones flying the ships - they're safe on-planet.

More to my question, once you succeed in becoming a "legal party," who's going to vote for you if you've killed their family members? In short, how are you going to get public support, and more importantly, why are you more legit than the current regime?

//OOC: This is an RP critique of Gryph's post, not a critique of Gryph...

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Sir Alisdair Buchanan, KBE ~ Gateway)Trafalgar

[Gryph]

Is this what goes on in a fascist state? I'd suspect the People often don't know much at all because they're too busy trying to survive, and no accurate source of information reaches them. The rank-and-file soldier and/or commercial pilot (both arguably "workers") also don't have much of a clue, and (especially with the soldier) is usually pressed into service.

Hence the utility of propaganda, which is one of the most essential parts of any guerrilla campaign. Consider reading Mao's On Guerrilla Warfare or Lenin's paper by the same name.

The "capitalists" aren't the ones flying the ships - they're safe on-planet.

Since we're interested in players, who are by definition out for themselves (and therefore capitalists), this is a non-issue. We wouldn't go around murdering truck drivers - after all, someone who doesn't stand to lose his livelihood by surrendering his cargo isn't going to be too reluctant to give it up.

More to my question, once you succeed in becoming a "legal party," who's going to vote for you if you've killed their family members? In short, how are you going to get public support, and more importantly, why are you more legit than the current regime?

You might be surprised how little of an issue this is. In order for a revolutionary struggle to succeed, there needs to be a critical mass of population behind it. If we get far enough to be a legal party, people will be inclined to do as we ask, because in order to get that far, people will have to be inclined to do as we ask. Again, I suggest Mao.

(No, I'm not a Maoist - that doesn't mean he didn't write the most definitive work on guerrilla warfare ever put to paper.)

[Quigs]

Re: possible war with Liberty... Bundschuh are patriots. In SP they were risking their lives trying to make a better Rhineland. They wouldn't support foreign invaders unless said invaders were there for the benefit (in Bund's opinion) of Rhinelanders. I really hope that's where [BU] would stand.

CP

[Jwnantze]

wow this is an interesting political discussion.....please continue this is entertaining. If you know this stuff this well then yeah make the faction dude.

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There is nothing worth living for, unless it is worth dying for. -Elizabeth Elliott

[bluntpencil2001]

Some fantastic arguments, Gryph. I look forward to seeing this faction in action.

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[jammi]

Also, isn't your diplomacy situational (probably for many of us)? I mean, you're "hostile" to RM and only unfriendly to, say, Liberty forces. However, if Liberty were to encroach upon Rheinland space, you would support RM kicking them out, would you not? In other words, in that case, RM would do now what they would do even under a socialist regime. Does this make sense?

Even though the Bundschuh are patriots, they are fighting for the freedom of the people. If Liberty was to invade, and take over a democracy would more than likley be established, and the people given greater freedoms and liberties. After all, in the veiw Rhineland's people Liberty must be some kind of paradise otherwise why would all the rich folk be flocking there?

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