' Wrote:Very important. What exactly do they think about Rep. Shipping, anyway? I was under the impression Rep. Shipping treated their workers fairly well, and thus were more a model for how corporations should be run that a target for reform...
Also, I've noticed that Bruschal doesn't give out missions vs. RM (or at least, not that often; never seen one, at any rate) Any ideas on how that works out? I'd think that, while defending themselves vigorously, Bundies wouldn't necessarily go picking a fight with RM all the time; more focus on the actual corporations, key assassinations, and propaganda.
The only reason I can come up with due to the lack of Rheinland Military missions for the Bundies to fight is due to the fact the RM does not consider them a threat large enough to require anything above local law enforcement. Out of all of the missions I've done for them, I've only ever had 1 mission against the Military.
I'm unable to give a definitive answer to Rep. Shipping at this time because I haven't been able to find any rumors pertaining to the Republicans in Bruschals bar. I'll look into the history more in depth tomorrow when I get on again.
[quote name='Warien' date='Mar 12 2008, 01:01 AM' post='202290']
... Funny, I've never seen a [RM] char engaged while I'm trading.
...
[/quote]
Unless you trade from the Ring to New Berlin and back during the whole day, I'd say this isn't exactly the best "vantage point" to state that.
[quote name='Warien' date='Mar 12 2008, 01:01 AM' post='202290']
Again, I apologize for some of the actions of our members, but most of our members ARE new to the community. Most of them don't understand the general flow of the way things work here yet.
[/quote]
And still you feel running your own faction is the way to go.
[quote name='Warien' date='Mar 12 2008, 01:01 AM' post='202290']
I'm the only one who has played Disco for awhile now, but we're all doing our best to pull things together. Most of us can RP well, and I'm sure you'll see that.
[/quote]
What I've seen so far is PvP jumping at the RM.
[quote name='Clayph' date='Mar 12 2008, 02:41 AM' post='202300']
That was because we wanted people to 'see us' in action?
[/quote]
Seen, didn't like it.
[quote name='Clayph' date='Mar 12 2008, 02:41 AM' post='202300']
I don't know, WHERE did you get that and I don't care about that. Bring me a proof
of BU member saying that eh? :angry:
[/quote]
That wasn't meant literally. This is a community jargon used to describe a behavior.
[quote name='Clayph' date='Mar 12 2008, 02:41 AM' post='202300']
Hell.. We spent our time and money to set up faction we WANT TO
create..
... We are so closely allied to RHA that it's almost the same.. So please don't mess our efforts being good RP faction..
...
[/quote]
Hmmm... that's catchy, because RHA and Bundschuh weren't supposed to be the same at all from an RP standpoint. Even if you extract almost all of the RP aspect from them and go down to the PvP part I still don't agree. One attacks the RM from Frankfurt, the other attacks the RM from Dresden, and the Corsairs in the Omegas. That's like saying Liberty Rogues and Xenos are the same...
[quote name='Rashnok' date='Mar 12 2008, 03:20 AM' post='202311']
I think one of the issues that we might be having is that quite a few of the BU, at least, almost all of those that came from where we came, are fighter jocks. That is, we enjoy PVP... a lot. I sounds like many of us have been trying to RP, but RP in a very aggressive manner, trying to get more PVP. It appears as though we had some misconceptions, such as people enjoying PVP just as much as we do.
[/quote]
Most of us enjoy PvP, but we (I) enjoy RP oriented PvP better, or rather, RP supported by PvP (and that doesn't even mean that there's got to be an actual fight, just that there's a possibility.
[quote name='Rashnok' date='Mar 12 2008, 03:20 AM' post='202311']
Probably should have taken a little time to get a feel for the server, but what's done is done. I, for one, am trying to adapt my tactics to the atmosphere of this server more.
[/quote]
Then we go again to the point when I told someone of your group to wait about creating the faction...
[quote name='Rashnok' date='Mar 12 2008, 03:20 AM' post='202311']
Edit: And on the note of creating characters before being approved, I looked through the forums, maybe not closely enough, and was unable to find anything that actually said that you could not create a character with the faction tag in their name. Wondering if I had missed something, I also asked around on the server and it seemed as though it should be fine. If creating the characters before official acceptance was such a major grievance, all I can say is that I'm sorry, but the rules did not appear to explicitly say so.
[/quote]
When I mentioned creating characters before approval, I didn't mean you were breaking any rules. I meant you went ahead of things and started the faction regardless on the community's feedback, even though you were here, asking for it. That makes me feel like you're not really interested in that rather than just an official "go ahead". It's like asking someone's opinion just to turn around and do something else while they are giving it. I think it's rude, and I don't mean just from you guys, but by everyone doing it. I think it's a lousy practice.
[quote name='Gryph' date='Mar 12 2008, 03:25 AM' post='202314']
EDIT: on the other hand, it doesn't matter, because I'm done here. No hard feelings, and nothing against the community, but things like this:
"I dunno about you, but I can only stomach so much combat. Part of the reason why I don't come on very often anymore."
Just don't describe the kind of game I want to play.
[/quote]
...
[quote name='Sabas' date='Mar 12 2008, 08:06 AM' post='202410']
What I'm interested in is where your seeing this, I would like to talk to the members that are doing something along these lines and get it set right.
I've recieved reports from some of my pilots of this matter and had I known this was going on I would of corrected it sooner, but I'm sorry for whats happened.
[/quote]
Again, it's about behaviorism.
[quote name='Warien' date='Mar 12 2008, 09:33 PM' post='202876']
...
I'm not saying you guys don't get combat, but when you say it's rare that you submit a combat report without an engagement...
...it's rare that I submit one without more than three.
...
[/quote]
It's rare when I have the time and will to write the report based on all the random PvP oriented idiocy I experience in game (something about being difficult to RP certain bizarre events).
[quote name='Warien' date='Mar 12 2008, 09:33 PM' post='202876']
...
As for joining the RHA... again, we enjoy seeing people from our faction actually on the server. Nothing against the RHA, I still maintain a character there, but the activity is lacking. That, and most of us have played a different mod together for over three years now, and we're a pretty tightly knit bunch. We also like to run things OUR way. :-)
...
[/quote]
When I first joined the server I too came in with a bunch of friends and they too wanted to create a faction of our own. We were here for two weeks and they all wanted a faction, battleships and the sort. Then I told them we'd be better off joining the existing factions. I did, the rest ended up losing interest and leaving. If we did that, today I'd be the happy bearer of a dead "faction"'s tag. Not the point really. I just wanted to point out that this is a natural feeling for groups that come from outside, but not necessarily the best way to go.
Well that was one hell of a way to summarize this discussion. Unless things change quite drastically in the next week and a half, I'll be starting my bundie as an independant. Though it is nice to know there will be company.
Maybe I don't like the way the [RM] carries out their business, or various other groups (like today when there was a [GC] just hanging out in Sigma-13). But, I don't go on crusades against their faction.
[quote name='Gronath' date='Mar 12 2008, 10:36 PM' post='202943']
That wasn't meant literally. This is a community jargon used to describe a behavior.[/quote]
Oh, good. Thing is... we don't do that...
[quote name='Gronath' date='Mar 12 2008, 10:36 PM' post='202943']
Hmmm... that's catchy, because RHA and Bundschuh weren't supposed to be the same at all from an RP standpoint. Even if you extract almost all of the RP aspect from them and go down to the PvP part I still don't agree. One attacks the RM from Frankfurt, the other attacks the RM from Dresden, and the Corsairs in the Omegas. That's like saying Liberty Rogues and Xenos are the same...[/quote]
And yet, every third person on here is saying, "O hai. U lik pirat? Join RHA! Kthxbai." When in reality, you're right. The RP is very different. In fact... having read the RP on their infocard, it doesn't even state anything about attacking Rheinland, other than the fact that they're hostile. Their main purpose is a turf war with the Corsairs. Hardly the same thing.
[quote name='Gronath' date='Mar 12 2008, 10:36 PM' post='202943']
Most of us enjoy PvP, but we (I) enjoy RP oriented PvP better, or rather, RP supported by PvP (and that doesn't even mean that there's got to be an actual fight, just that there's a possibility.[/quote]
Likewise, and I apologize for just jumping one of your members the other day.
[quote name='Gronath' date='Mar 12 2008, 10:36 PM' post='202943']
Then we go again to the point when I told someone of your group to wait about creating the faction...
When I mentioned creating characters before approval, I didn't mean you were breaking any rules. I meant you went ahead of things and started the faction regardless on the community's feedback, even though you were here, asking for it. That makes me feel like you're not really interested in that rather than just an official "go ahead". It's like asking someone's opinion just to turn around and do something else while they are giving it. I think it's rude, and I don't mean just from you guys, but by everyone doing it. I think it's a lousy practice.[/quote]
You know, Sabas asked other people for their opinion... it's possible that others gave it thumbs up.
Well, a game with ships where just about the only thing you can do is customize a weapons loadout... tends to lend itself to combat.
[quote name='Gronath' date='Mar 12 2008, 10:36 PM' post='202943']
It's rare when I have the time and will to write the report based on all the random PvP oriented idiocy I experience in game (something about being difficult to RP certain bizarre events).[/quote]
I have the same problem in Liberty. But, I usually take the time to put a little creative spin on it and make it RP appropriate (not that your answer really portains to the context of the question).
[quote name='Gronath' date='Mar 12 2008, 10:36 PM' post='202943']
When I first joined the server I too came in with a bunch of friends and they too wanted to create a faction of our own. We were here for two weeks and they all wanted a faction, battleships and the sort. Then I told them we'd be better off joining the existing factions. I did, the rest ended up losing interest and leaving. If we did that, today I'd be the happy bearer of a dead "faction"'s tag. Not the point really. I just wanted to point out that this is a natural feeling for groups that come from outside, but not necessarily the best way to go.
[/quote]
Notice, we haven't even bought a cruiser, much less a battleship(s). Just because we're trying to do our own thing, doesn't mean we won't join other factions. I, for one, have probably joined too many as it is. If this faction ends up dead, oh well, that's about how the [RHA]. No harm done.
I waited for two pages to fill and with the only one being held back was comment on how our tag should look. I'm not sure who created the characters before I said so, but I'm sorry for that.
' Wrote:One more thing:
I would take S13 off your ZoI list.
ooRP reason: it's crowded enough as it is
RP reason: you don't care what goes on there, you care about RHEINLAND, and S13 isn't part of RHEINLAND.
We patrol Sigma 13 on the Junker side of the system because Bundschuh are dependent on the junker base there to survive, along with the one in New Berlin.
' Wrote:...
But, I don't go on crusades against their faction.
...
This isn't a Crusade against your faction. This is an effort to avoid having a PvP oriented faction not only so close, but aiming me and my friends specifically. This is an attempt to shed light over your way and have you finally figure out this server isn't as much about PvP as it is about RP. Even though the forums are a very important part of it, "RPing" here and not in game means nothing.
And I also don't mean that the Bundschuh, or any other faction for that matter, should be frozen in a stereotype forever. If you want to take a political activist small faction and give it a twist so it becomes a large, militarized grunt faction, promote that change, don't simply say, "Nah, we are going to play it our way now." Make events portraying what happened to them so they would become like that (much more interesting way), or at least give it a sound explanation (another way).
Don't get me wrong here. I don't want to spoil your fun. But I also don't want you to spoil mine. I'm much more interested in this thread because, even though I had a terrible first, second and third impressions of your act, I believe that you perhaps are capable of grasping what I'm trying to say here. Also, because I care much more about Rheinland than any other of the Houses (because I play there). If I didn't even bother or had no faith in your hearing capabilities, I wouldn't even bother wasting my time (points to another thread).
Heh, you know what, I'm not even going to bother trying to make another post in here, Gronath is doing a perfect job of it. I agree with his opinion entirely, because it's true, all I've seen from the BU guys is PvP and no forms of RP what so ever...
Unless I see some change to the more RP side of things, I think that this is a "No."
You guys have great potential, but as Gryph put it, it seems like some of your members aren't going to find what they are looking for here on this server. PvP is great, but there is a limit. This is called a RP server for a very specific reason.
My suggestion: When playing the Bundschuh, play the small guy.... don't run up into RM for the single purpose of PvP. Remember that they outnumber you, and frankly, you can't expend the manpower to take them out.
In discovery, our player groups are called Factions not Clans, for a reason. These factions reflect on how a actual group will act in real life. Do you think that Bundschuh members - intellectuals, students, professors, protestors, and writers - would actively hunt RM, even if there were only one or two RM on at specific time?
The answer is no.
At the current time, you seem to be playing as a Clan and your "war" against the RM is beginning to look like a Clan War that we see on Void and other such servers.
This is not to say that you aren't making the effort to turn around, because you certainly are. It would just be best if this effort to interlock RP and PvP became more apparent, faster. Otherwise, the faction isn't getting off the ground.
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
I hesitate to post, because (1) I'm new and (2) this thread has gone back and forth quite a bit already. So forgive me for my presumtuousness. However, I think the RP-development suggestions some have made are key, and at least a couple of things might improve that.
First, back off some on the combat. Students, intellectuals, etc., are in the business of persuasion, first and foremost. Approach RM's and talk! Argue with them. Make them justify their own loyalties, as you are demonstrating yours. Attempt to sway them to your side - as a small faction, you could use the support! (You might get players who fly RM make other characters to fly with you...)
Then do the same with traders, independents, etc. Do what the faction you envision would do in real life. Propaganda isn't an excuse for fighting; it is part of the struggle itself, and used well, can achieve your stated ends often in a more cost-effective manner.
This doesn't mean there can't be action, but make the action more deliberative, more focused. I've doubted the RP legitimacy since the beginning of arbitrarily targeting RM ships - I just don't think it makes sense with your stated goals or from the perspective of building a faction.
Of course, if you're only interested in PvP, this won't be of interest to you. But Sabas and others strike me as more RP-oriented than that. If BU and RM can give each other a little space (both in-game and on the forums), and if everyone claiming to be BU can be unified, perhaps things can get re-energized in a more constructive direction. I've read this thread fairly carefully, and it seems most issues could be resolved throuh some additional thoughtful RP.
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