Non-Nomad RP on Nomad Cloaked ships

[Thyrzul]

My only issue was that by no means I could make sure you are in scanner range when I type something. There were minor signs only, e.g. you were generally flying around the CLT La Dijonnaise as you met that one first, and then I saw you asking about it when we split for a moment in Newcastle, from that I also knew you came with me, but that's all. To me that was the only frustrating part.

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[tothebonezone]

2: I care more about Freelancer game lore and my own logical percetption than about some pdf that some guy wrote.

First off, there's almost zero ingame lore about the Nomads, so it was all up for debate as to what they were about. Someone spent some actual time putting something together that made some sense to the majority, and it stuck.

Second, your own 'logical perception'? What does that mean?

Nomads only exist how you think they exist? Or they should all act how you believe they should?

Piss off.

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[McNeo]

Whether you want to annoy somebody or not is not the point. The point is whether you are actually annoying them or not, and if you are, what they can do about it.

With the infinite cloak, they can do nothing about it. They can't get rid of you, they can't shoot you, they can only ask politely.

It's pretty much a powergaming tool. Furthermore, it's impossible not to use it as such, unless you refrain from RPing while cloaked, save for any engagement message you might give.

To be honest, I should be thanking your example, since behaviour like this puts it on a fast track towards the nerfstick.

I've got no problem with off-the-rails RP that goes against established lore. I did some myself not too long ago, specifically to do with the apparently completely lethal liquid cardamine that is a contention I completely ignore. What I do have a problem with is being completely powerless to evict an enemy, that can just yap and yap forever without anybody being able to do anything about it.

Your intentions, such as they are, do not reflect the reality of the situation.

[Haste]

Nomad cloaks do need to be changed, although I think they should remain fuel-less and "unique" in some way. However, I've personally experienced one of the main drawbacks: you fly a K'Hara| tagged ship, people assume you have a cloak, and don't bother looking for you. That way, you miss out on interactions.

It's really annoying the other way around, too: even if you're looking for a "passive" interaction on a non-Nomad character, cloaked Nomads don't bother uncloaking as they're worried they might get shot. Again, you miss out on a player-player interaction which is what a multiplayer game is all about.

The cloaks somehow need to be limited in such a way that Nomads don't just blindly toggle it on as they go on an adventure, and then leave it on forever. Fuel is not ideal. Nomads have very few bases, and restocking regular ammo is enough of a pain as-is.

A slow(ish) powercore drain might be useful. It'd partially counter/nerf the lame sneak-up-and-kill tactics cloaks can be used for, and add a timer of sorts: you run out of powercore, your cloak turns off. Combine that with a long charge-up time, and you have to actually think about when you turn on your cloak.

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More on-topic: if "indie" cloaks are proving to be problematic, they're easy enough to get rid of. The Trial ID is not supposed to be a tool for "special human roleplay". Additionally, the Trial ID is all about player-player interactions to practice Nomad behavior, so it doesn't really benefit much from a cloak anyways.

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Oh, and before people claim "qq u just dont liek nomads having an advantage over u" - I fly both Aoi| and K'Hara| quite a lot.

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[Syf]

Other than having a fun time reading through that massive log. I found it quite amusing. Myself.. I wouldn't mind it, but then again. I can see why some would be irritated.

But that way of thinking, is still flawed. You can't just make something self-contradictory. But, like people have said. We don't really decide your RP, that would be flawed in my opinion also. But it still has to be within a scope of.. some kind of logically-explainable-nonpowergaming-RP? I have no damn clue. Haha.

But I do wonder one thing, is it straight impossible to RP human-ish like on certain occasions? (Not exactly how Spud did) Like.. What's more annoying now? Nomad talk? Or a nomad/hybrid talking like a girl who's missing a few teeth and sounds funny as hell?

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Inferno wuz here.

[sindroms]

...

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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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[mwerte]

*looks at user joined date*

"Get off my lawn!"

To be perfectly honest, yes, it is a bit of that. But the players here who are saying "doh!" are the ones who cultivated that lawn and know it best, and while all the attitudes might not be polite, they are trying to guide. Treewyrm has spent more time than anyone I know guiding people and helping them understand Nomad roleplay. That should be given some respect.

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[Spud]

Right.
I didn't want to continue posting here after the tone got even worse than the original post, but...

After I got rid of my cloak and stopped using "audio speech", I was alone in New York (it was early in the morning) practicing on npcs to use those weirdo nomad LF guns.

Then someone in a LF called "Extreme.Nuisance" who my char has never met before enters New York and says in system chat "Hmm, New York seems empty... This is not usual".

I check the player list again to see that I'm the only one in the system with him and deduce that he wants to interact with me, so I go near Manhattan and fund him there.

After some telepathic messages from my part (not using sound anymore), he starts saying how nomads cant speak and that we use a "whacky mindhsare" to communitcate.

While I re-read my messages to check if I really only used telepathy (which I did), he shouts "KILL IT" and kills me.

Seconds after I explode, another person that my char has never met before (I searched my chat logs, his name came up 0 times) pms me "//rip" and doesnt answer me when I ask why he pmed me that.

I go to Connecticut to practice shooting instead, and "Extreme.Nuisance" follows me there and brags about how he "recked" me in New York.

When I ask him how his char knew that my morph used to speak with a human voice, because I only used telepathy when RPing with him, he tells me he never met me ingame before but mentions this thread on the forum. When I ask him who he is he refuses to tell me and says "I am too mysterious for you young woman".

So, in the light of this I decide to switch to a human ship and ID to RP as an infiltrator sooner than planned, while spud is still inexperienced about human interactions. Fortunately I meet a nice navy player who RPs along with me, and I end up leading him to the shrine, overpowering him there to steal his ship, erasing is memory, and dumping him in an escape pod in Magellan. So spud now IRP got a human ship, and I set up a ship exactly like he had, with the exception of a freelancer ID instead of navy because Spud didnt join the navy "legitimately".

Then today morning, I undock from Manhattan and the first thing I hear is "Oh so you're navy now" from a guy that my char has never met either.

I tell him that I don't believe we've met, and he tells me that he heard bad things about me. All of it "IRP".

So I guess my trying to play a nomad ends here. It was fun before this thread, and I think the people who actually RPed back at me thought it was fun too, until the people who decided to be annoyed after the first line of cloaked RP and who didnt RP back decided to yell about how horribly annoying I am, and the people who never even met me joined them.

I was actually doing this small video project, but I guess I won't be getting to give it a better ending and a larger selection of scenes:

(if you cant read the text because the quality automatically gets set to crappy on a slow connection, force it to 480p and wait for it to buffer):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBCQNeiWf0c

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[Spud]

For the people who are interested and for who its not to long to read to get answers to what they said to me:

I bumped into your character on a couple of occasions and found it very irritating, doubly so because I couldn't get rid of you since you were permacloaked.
In essence, it looked like a 'troll character' - for lack of a better phrase - or a very, very confused morph. Something about it pointed to the former, though.

And if you bump into people's char it's their fault? Troll characters dont leave people alone when asked to. There are hundreds of those here, that talk in system chat, that bug you and then run around in light fighters that you cant hit, that you cant get rid of, or that you cant even survive the encounter against, because they always win any pvp. As already said, if someone sent me any indication that they felt annoyed or irritated I always left them alone. Some did that IRP, not a single one //ooc. If you bump into me agian later while I'm talking to someone else, not my fault.

If it irritates you that you cant get rid of someone that you bump into and who was RPing with someone else, maybe you're the one who needs to rethink their attitude.

You should probably work on the initial impression your character delivers, since it earned you a /ignore on my part.

The initial impression you get is mainly governed by your own assumptions made on the very little that you see at first glance. What I perceived was that the more people chose to interact with me the more they enjoyed it, and for the ones that chose not to interact with me further, I respected that. If you give /ignore after an initial impression, that's your right but also your own problem.

The character might have potential, but you should probably look more towards Treewyrm's and Moveit's advice rather than dismissing it as being "of no value".

Then again, if you're having fun with what you're currently doing and planning, nobody is going to be able to stop you from continuing along that route. I just wouldn't expect a whole lot of co-operation from others with your current attitude, if I were you.

I got a whole lot of co-operation from people who were open minded enough to RP back even if their initial impression may or not have been good or bad.

If some people dont want to co-operate with me thats perfectly fine with me, I dont insist.

I'm not the one who insisted on co-operation from Treewyrm&co, I'm not the one who made this complaint thead. You guys are asking for my co-operation, which according to you should look like me behaving exactly the way you want, while you are not willing to listen and who brush asside my arguments by making up more and more things that are not true or that never happened. A little more on that below.

Thing is, a Nomad ship is not a ship. It's not the Nomad itself, or rather one of it's forms. It has no cockpit, it has no machinery. It is a living thing. The "cloak" is a part of the being's ability to shape light around it, not some "attachment". No, this is not some excuse to get you to change, but rather what the established lore has been from day one, Disco or otherwise.

So while your RP is interesting, and is a different thought process with regards this whole thing, using a Nomad Morph that has a human (hybrid or not) inside it and piloting it doesn't work because of the above, hence why the recommendation is to use another ship. It's like saying you killed an Elephant, ripped out it's guts, and you sit in it and are somehow able to move it/control it/ensure it doesn't decompose. It's not how it works sadly.

You're taking it as an excuse to attack your RP. People may not agree with it, but it's not attacking. It's providing you with the lore behind such actions, and explaining that part of it is impossible to do.

This is quoted from the discovery nomad lore 1.31, on the subject of nomad ships:

To maintain form an extremely strong bone structure is created to hold the skin, organs, tools, equipment [size=20]and any hybrid pilots[/size in place.

What a bummer, ey?

This thread was made for nothing else than to attack my RP. People here who say that have never even met my character are now lecturing me about things they asume I'm doing, stating things that are straight out wrong, which they only assumed to be right because they heard someone who they think must know more say, and then some if them IRP repeat it to me ingame on characters that have never met mine before.

My only issue was that by no means I could make sure you are in scanner range when I type something. There were minor signs only, e.g. you were generally flying around the CLT La Dijonnaise as you met that one first, and then I saw you asking about it when we split for a moment in Newcastle, from that I also knew you came with me, but that's all. To me that was the only frustrating part.

Not knowing if an invisible person is still there while talking to them has been exploited for comedy in a lot of films, it's up to the individual person if he chooses to be frustrated or annoyed or amused by it. I remember you as one of the friendly and open-minded people ingame and I thank you for that.

*looks at user joined date*
"Get off my lawn!"
To be perfectly honest, yes, it is a bit of that. But the players here who are saying "doh!" are the ones who cultivated that lawn and know it best, and while all the attitudes might not be polite, they are trying to guide. Treewyrm has spent more time than anyone I know guiding people and helping them understand Nomad roleplay. That should be given some respect.

I respect that he did interesting systems and models (as far as I know) and that he spends his time to make them, but does that mean I have to agree with things that I know are straight out wrong? More on that later in the post.

But it still has to be within a scope of.. some kind of logically-explainable-nonpowergaming-RP? I have no damn clue. Haha.

All of my logically explainable RP is logical, and not powergaming. What is powergaming is to say "your char cant talk because I say she cant", or "cant fly in a nomad ship", or "cant be a hybrid" while there is no logically explainable reason why not, and there are plenty of examples that other people did it, that the lore says it can happen, and that even the people who say I cant do it did they exact same thing.

But I do wonder one thing, is it straight impossible to RP human-ish like on certain occasions?

There are plenty of reasons in the Freelancer nomad faction description to say that they can, because they are very adaptable. What is totally unrealistic is to say that nomads can infiltrate the highest positions in governements, posess human bodies, undertand human psychology, communicate with them telepathically, but that its absolutely impossible for them to talk in correct english.

Like.. What's more annoying now? Nomad talk? Or a nomad/hybrid talking like a girl who's missing a few teeth and sounds funny as hell?

My personal impression that what annoyed certain people was not actually what was happending, but that they thought that something was happening that the disco-gods did not give their personaly signed permission to.

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[Spud]

Hm looks like that was too long to post. Anyway...

Whether you want to annoy somebody or not is not the point. The point is whether you are actually annoying them or not, and if you are, what they can do about it.

With the infinite cloak, they can do nothing about it. They can't get rid of you, they can't shoot you, they can only ask politely.

It's pretty much a powergaming tool. Furthermore, it's impossible not to use it as such, unless you refrain from RPing while cloaked, save for any engagement message you might give.

To be honest, I should be thanking your example, since behaviour like this puts it on a fast track towards the nerfstick.

I've got no problem with off-the-rails RP that goes against established lore. I did some myself not too long ago, specifically to do with the apparently completely lethal liquid cardamine that is a contention I completely ignore. What I do have a problem with is being completely powerless to evict an enemy, that can just yap and yap forever without anybody being able to do anything about it.

Your intentions, such as they are, do not reflect the reality of the situation.

There are at least 50 people in New York every day talking to every single person in the system who can do nothing about it, and they know it, and they get told to shut up and they continue just to annoy people. Including nomads, doing the "correct" ***"ours" ~hate~ "yours"*** RP without getting shot, which is like trying to talk using a maximum vocabulary of 20 words and thus a really great RP tool (sarcasm).
In my entire time as spud, I think maybe 2 people told me to shut up and leave them alone (and those said it when I had spoken about than 4 lines to them), and when when they said it I did.

You tell me that my intentions do not refelct the reality of the situation, when infact your assumptions based on what a few people who chose to be annoyed for the simple reason that my RP was not unintelligible giberish between asterixes while either visible withing radar range or in system chat do not reflect the reality of my behavior, or the situation.

If I wanted to powergame and annoying, I could ***no~"grammar"~RP*** exactly the way other nomads do, in system chat, 40 k off the plane, knowing no one will ever have any clue where I am.

The reason I chose cloak and speech was because I wanted to avoid that sort of annoying as hell and stupid ***system chat RP that no one cares about or understands***, without being blown up on site.

Treewyrm also just assumed that I'm using the cloak and voice and hybridization to powergame and be anoying, which is what I found most annoying from his part. I chose cloak so I could have more potential to RP without annoying the entire system and being ksploded on sight, the speech to make the RP more diverse and interesting, and the hybridization and speech impediment to be the exact oposite of a "perfect" powergaming character.

Speaking of Treewyrm and his instructuns "friendly advice" about how my RP is impossible and wrong, I took the time to re-read the discover nomad lore and Chriss Todd's nomad description to see if I had been imagining things when I read it the first time.
I already quoted the part where it mentione hybrid pilots in nomad ship above

Here's more on hybrids, quoted from the very same Discovery nomad lore 1.31:

The Hybrid

Towards the end of 800 A.S; when Nomads were actively seeking to adapt human technology to their needs they found a way to blend human and Nomad DNA to create a hybrid being: neither human nor nomad, but something new with the abilities of both.

The nomad faction story by Chris Todd says:

In their native form, the Nomads resemble nothing so much as amorphous, wormlike entities, but their inbred talent for genetic adaptability allows them to merge with the physiology of higher lifeforms.
...
The Nomads were specifically created with a high-degree of genetic adaptability. Possessing almost no fundamental genetic
structure of their own, the Nomads were able to absorb and decode the genetic structure of other organisms; they were in effect living machines, crawling analysis tools that supervised the many different experiments of the Daam-K'Vosh.

Right. In 800 AS you say they did it, but for some inexplicable reason, 20 years later when they are larger and more powerfull and more riled up against humanity than ever, and them being the total gene-maniputlaing tools and obsorbing DNA of other species, now they cant.

So what we learned form the lore and faction story was that nomad ships can hold hybrid pilots, are large enough to carry something like 30 escape pods in their hold, that nomads had hybrids in 800 A.S, that even the Hellfire Legion created a hybrid (them begin HUMANS, not gene-manipulton tools of the DKV, at least so it says that somewhere in the lore), that some people here had hybrid chars years ago, that there are even navy cruisers that have nomad stuff growing out of them. But that for me, all of that is absolutely and 120% impossible. Because someone wrote a pdf and says he could, and now says I cant. Thank you. Appreciate all your hard work writing it.

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