Rheinland Military [RM] Feedback Thread

[Lobster]

We conducted a preemptive strike on your capital fleet based on this information.

http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=111352

We were fully expecting to be fighting around 4-5 battleships, which is why I was giving the indies an emergency lesson in cruiser kiting on the way there and why I brought my battleship.

It was a mistake. If I had only PMed Lunatic before the battle happened, then I would have realized that you were not planning to attack the base.

But I did not, and we went in on full attack mode. We got there adrenaline pumping and ready to shoot. The attitude got the better of us and we did.

Again, I can only ask for your forgiveness given the circumstances.

[LunaticOnTheGrass]

I'm going to need a very, very sizable sandwich to eat after this, but I'd like everyone reading this thread to have a look in the "Base attack announcement thread".

That's all I have to say at present. Maybe I'll have more when I'm feeling a little better.


- VWA|Weiss.Rose

[Thexare]

We were fully expecting to be fighting around 4-5 battleships,

Bundschuh ID doesn't even allow battleships last I checked. They called us, and only us, for support. We are only permitted one battleship.

And how do you even know where Zwickau is anyway, in-RP

This is my last post here. I've made my opinion clear, and nothing you've said has come close to changing my mind.

[Kazinsal]

I could understand the gank if we were actively engaging the base in question.

We were sitting at a heavily-concealed, small Bundschuh outpost in a dense, sensor-blocking (the spyglass scanner can only see 10K in it) nebula.

I doubt we had the firepower to take on a single Rheinland Battleship and win.

Your swiss cheese explanation needs more work.

~VR-youknowbloodywellwhatIwasflying

EDIT: Maybe next time if you want to sound sincere, don't send the exact same apology to two different people and then post it unaltered in your feedback thread.

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Retired, permanently.

[Moberg]

I was not there, but I'll just conclude some things based on the information posted here.

What the military knows - base declaration thread or not - is that the Bundschuh are planning an attack on an indie MND/Military base that is to be established in Dresden.

Your crafts were spotted in other systems, I was told that there was enough visual/scanner contact to track your path down and conclude where the direction could be. That you moved a battleship into the system where said threatened base was built didn't help your case either. Obviously, the military began searching where your track has been lost. Judging that a base was threatened, it is logical to begin the search just there. That you were hiding at a base in a cloud is no argument. Scanners are still able to pick you up at a distance, and it seems that the search teams were successful in finding you, and you failed in hiding.

And then, how likely it is or not - the (iRP) potentially base-threatening force was found and guess what? Correct, what followed was the order to nuke the possible assault force to hell and back since considerable work, time and credits were / are about to being put into it.

Besides, you can't tell me that you had no chance to scout, gather intel about the enemy fleet and counter it appropriately. Ever tried a bomberspam against a capspam that does not have a considerable amount of solarisboats? Yeah, apparently not. Judging from what was posted as playercount in the indie chat, 6 bombers and 1 battleship would have been quite excellent to use against this.
You can't tell me that you couldn't counter it. Because you could.

But instead you think QQing here about what happened - and in my eyes mostly legit actions - is going to help you. Guess what, it is not. The Military had a very legitimate reason to be there with numerous forces.

Regarding the independent players: Once in a "bloodrage", you can barely stop them. You should know that too. Though not from VR and/or Bundschuh, since the former doesn't have indies and the latter barely (hessians have more gameplay perks, but that's another topic not for this thread), but maybe from other factions. Sometimes the chat is just completely left aside by players once the fight started, and they won't read your orders. So if you see indies, regardless of faction, you have to expect that they are not going to follow the orders of the official faction entirely.

Now, before you reply, summarized:

• You didn't hide good enough, using the reason "hidden base in nebula" to blame others for your own inability to use a distant hiding spot where nobody would be able to find you.
  
• You failed to counter the enemy forces, using the reason "omg qq gank" to blame others for your own inability to counter capital ships with bombers and thus turning the tide into your own favour.
  
• You try to blame the official factions for the behaviour of independent players. How can you know the indies were not ordered away? How can you know whether the situation required the indies moving away? After all, there is something called group chat.

How do you even think you have a very good reason to complain?

And no, I won't apologize for the actions of my members.

[Kazinsal]

Our apologies for thinking that a small outpost in a dense nebula would be a good place to roleplay for a bit.

It won't happen again.

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Retired, permanently.

[Moberg]

Space is dangerous. Expect that you can never hide forever. If you don't, deal with it.
Proves that clouds aren't 100% safe either and while scanners are not as reliable as usual, they can still get you killed.

P.S: Irregularly changing positions helps a lot to confuse search teams.

[Omi]

Can I leave feedback on how bad the RM is at responding to feedback?

Because I feel like that should be highlighted.

You ganked the living daylights out of them and shouldn't even be trying to justify it. I would have expected an official faction - and a military one, at that - to be able to manage the obvious discrepancies between good gameplay and good roleplay effectively.

Perhaps I shouldn't expect so much.

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[Moberg]

Your feedback has been acknowledged, but from my point of view the actions were justified.

And if you are out of arguments to use against this case, you don't have to try to make up for it by calling the "expected better from official faction" and "lost case" cards.

The participants posted their views, which have been acknowledged, and I have explained the possible reasoning behind the actions that have happened.

If you don't like it this way or rather the way I voice it, I'm open for suggestions that will be discussed in the MC.

[Ichiru]

I was not there, but I'll just conclude some things based on the information posted here.

You're right, you weren't there

What the military knows - base declaration thread or not - is that the Bundschuh are planning an attack on an indie MND/Military base that is to be established in Dresden.

InRP, the military at the time of the attack had no way of knowing this. They found out through a metagame from one of our members (which was very naughty of him too).

Your crafts were spotted in other systems, I was told that there was enough visual/scanner contact to track your path down and conclude where the direction could be.

The only contact that we had before we were attacked was in Hamburg, which does not provide enough information to say that we were going to end up near Zwickau Depot.

That you moved a battleship into the system where said threatened base was built didn't help your case either.

The military didn't know this iRP. All they knew was that a ship was being moved into Rheinland.

Obviously, the military began searching where your track has been lost. Judging that a base was threatened, it is logical to begin the search just there. That you were hiding at a base in a cloud is no argument. Scanners are still able to pick you up at a distance, and it seems that the search teams were successful in finding you, and you failed in hiding.

At the time of the attack, the Bundschuh had not yet made any communication saying that they were going to attack SGHQ

And then, how likely it is or not - the (iRP) potentially base-threatening force was found and guess what? Correct, what followed was the order to nuke the possible assault force to hell and back since considerable work, time and credits were / are about to being put into it.

Even if you had found us without using OORP methods, there was no reason, no reason for the military to bring 5 Cruisers (at least 3 with Sollies), 2 Bombers, a VHF, and a Battleship to deal with a single battleship, a gunboat, 2 Heavy Fighters, and an SHF.

Besides, you can't tell me that you had no chance to scout, gather intel about the enemy fleet and counter it appropriately.

The fleet appeared about 2 minutes after we got into Dresden. The fleet wasn't there when we were moving all the ships

Ever tried a bomberspam against a capspam that does not have a considerable amount of solarisboats? Yeah, apparently not. Judging from what was posted as playercount in the indie chat, 6 bombers and 1 battleship would have been quite excellent to use against this. You can't tell me that you couldn't counter it. Because you could.

We didn't have the numbers for 6 bombers and 1 battleship. Not to mention half the people were Natio Octavarium anyway and their bombers were halfway across Sirius. There were also several solarisboats and snubs too. It's pretty much impossible to counter with such a small force + 30 seconds notice.

But instead you think QQing here about what happened - and in my eyes mostly legit actions - is going to help you. Guess what, it is not. The Military had a very legitimate reason to be there with numerous forces.

Lovely ad hominem here. And it's never legit to metagame and send a huge gankforce to anyone, that's just ruining the fun of the other players and is not what being an official faction is about.

Regarding the independent players: Once in a "bloodrage", you can barely stop them. You should know that too. Though not from VR and/or Bundschuh, since the former doesn't have indies and the latter barely (hessians have more gameplay perks, but that's another topic not for this thread), but maybe from other factions. Sometimes the chat is just completely left aside by players once the fight started, and they won't read your orders. So if you see indies, regardless of faction, you have to expect that they are not going to follow the orders of the official faction entirely.

There were several BDM and RM official ships there, and -all- of them stayed to the very end even when there was only one VWA ship left, and -all- of them attacked me in their cruisers and battleships and snubs.

Now, before you reply, summarized:

• You didn't hide good enough, using the reason "hidden base in nebula" to blame others for your own inability to use a distant hiding spot where nobody would be able to find you.
  
• You failed to counter the enemy forces, using the reason "omg qq gank" to blame others for your own inability to counter capital ships with bombers and thus turning the tide into your own favour.
  
• You try to blame the official factions for the behaviour of independent players. How can you know the indies were not ordered away? How can you know whether the situation required the indies moving away? After all, there is something called group chat.

• We weren't expecting to have our position revealed through metagaming and leading an entire capfleet into a cloud is terrible tactics anyway. Think back to the 80 Year war. Not that we should have to fly 40k off the plane to have RP without being met by a gankforce anyway, that's completely unreasonable
  
• We couldn't counter the enemy forces considering half of us didn't have bombers, there were less of us, and you had solaris equipped cruisers
  
• At least 50% of the force was made up of official faction players and they also failed to move away once they had completed killing all but one.
  
  

How do you even think you have a very good reason to complain?

And no, I won't apologize for the actions of my members.

Well for one you weren't even there so you don't get to try and tell me the circumstances of a fight that I was in, and you're just plain rude to legitimate feedback given

EDIT: Pretend I wrote this waaaay earlier

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Acolyte of NoMe