Missile reaction time

[Varyag]

anyone have the energy numbers for cruiser and gb missle launchers? I know it is high, but i would like to see em.

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"I looked up and all I saw was green death"

[X-Lancer]

It's almost like this... Cruiser and BS can't take two bombers (if they know what they are doing)
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No...BS can kill 2 bombers easily if bombers are not using thruster to do shield running..BS having issue on their heavy weapons...not heavy enough....and use too much energy...except inferno is worth to use.....

[X-Lancer]

Well... in that case they should be given chain guns with high RoF, range and velocity, since they _should_ be able to kill anything smaller than themselves.

Actually, I would prefer that, no missiles, and no anti-capship weapons.

That would also leave room for missile boats with multiple heavy long-range missile hardpoints (with ammo!) for long-range strikes against, for example, gunships to remove the anti-figther/bomber screen and, say,a couple of lvl5 turrets for last-ditch defense against fighters and bombers. They should preferably be able to put serious hurt on at least everything smaller than a BC, but be able to soak significantly less damage than a gunship. A 'pure' support craft, but effective when in that role.

The thing is, we (or at least I) don't want that matches should be 'fair', but that every class has a conceivable use where it cannot be replaced.

A proposal:

Remove GB missile turrets altogether.
Remove GB anti-capship weapons (GB vs GB will become painfully slow)
Raise velocity, range and RoF of GB weapons, lower damage to match
Introduce new class 'Missile ship' with longest-range heavy, high-speed, slow-turning missiles, ammo, weak hull and a few medium-level turrets.

That would make:
Fighters: Hard counter to bombers, soft counter to fighters, missile ships
Bombers: Hard counter to capships, missile ships, soft counter to gunships
Gunships: Hard counter to fighters, soft counter to bombers
Missile ships: Hard counter to gunships, capships at range
Capships: Hard counter to gunships, missile ships up close.

Now, a 'hard counter' can expect to take out what it is countering rapidly and with small expected losses at similar skill level. A 'soft counter' can take out what it is countering, but expect to take substantial losses or take a while to do it.

disagree....the current balance is good..except the capship missiles launcher...especial the gunboat one..

[Dab]

Even if Bombers thrust-run (what I call running to 3k with thruster to recharge shield) you can take them down with GB. Because they have to close to 2k for a SN shot, 1k at least for an accurate one (BS can strafe out of the way at 2k) so they get close enough for the BS to do damage.

Anyway, since I don't feel like spending an hour reading this thread I missed, I'll answer Mjolner's first post.. Fighter missiles really don't activate any quicker or slower than GB/Cr/BS missiles. Its just that fighters are closer towards each other both at 200m/s. Thats 400m/s basically.. Even firing at 300m, your likely to pass before the missile activates. Probably at 400m and 500m. Thats why you should fire missiles at 750m if you want them to track. Rarely they track at being fired at 250m, its just that when they do they usually hit. For a GB, your moving towards each other, maybe at 330m/s max, if your facing each other. And GBs start shooting much sooner. In your situation, you weren't even getting closer, you were turning behind/above him, so the missiles had plenty of time to track.

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[wrathkin]

So the problem is that a ship that is designed to take down small craft does, indeed, take down small craft?

If the GB is not a credible counter to fighters and bombers, then it has no role.

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John Johnson - Master of Synth.Foods-Convoy|049
Hans Adler - Synth Foods escort wing

Sebastian Wrath - Zoner in a Temporary Autonomous Zone ([TAZ]Punchin'Seb)

[mjolnir]

Fighter missiles really don't activate any quicker or slower than GB/Cr/BS missiles.


Its just that fighters are closer towards each other both at 200m/s. Thats 400m/s basically.. Even firing at 300m, your likely to pass before the missile activates. Probably at 400m and 500m. Thats why you should fire missiles at 750m if you want them to track. Rarely they track at being fired at 250m, its just that when they do they usually hit. For a GB, your moving towards each other, maybe at 330m/s max, if your facing each other. And GBs start shooting much sooner. In your situation, you weren't even getting closer, you were turning behind/above him, so the missiles had plenty of time to track.

Right... I use fighter missiles a lot... and I really don't fire them at 750m....I seem to remember hitting your Sabre with two Cannonballs on hull just recently... and no they were not fired from 750m.

And fighter missiles do travel for 1s straight then activate and turn... gunboat missiles don't do that.... if you joust a GB.. you go at 200.. he goes at 140 = 340 (fighters at 400)... yet he can fire them from 100ms and they instantly activate and track. Now I don't really see how it's the same with fighters...

@ Wrathkin

GB right now is used against just about everything..

and no it's not a problem that it can take down small craft... problem is that small craft don't have any way to counter it... It's like when 2 LFs Mine-spamm against a bomber... he can't really counter it (without a CD)... but they will run out of mines eventually... and it will cost them....

if a GB spams 4 missiles... you can't attack him.. you can just dodge...and he can do it forever, and for free

And yes I'm repeating myself here.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[wrathkin]

If GB are indeed used as a general-purpose craft, that brings me back to: lower speed, lower maneuverability, remove anti-capship weapons.

That small craft cannot counter a ship _specifically_ designed to take them out, now that I do not see as a problem. That there is no non-get-a-bigger-cap counter may be a problem, but I'd suggest to amend that by introducing the aforementioned missile gunboat, instead of making the gunship good for nothing.

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John Johnson - Master of Synth.Foods-Convoy|049
Hans Adler - Synth Foods escort wing

Sebastian Wrath - Zoner in a Temporary Autonomous Zone ([TAZ]Punchin'Seb)