Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high?

[Corile]

The video is interesting. However instead of comparing a CAU8 Salvager to an AU8 P-train, could we get a comparison versus the more common battle transports at equal armor levels?

Mostly we did this as a comparison by two most used smuggling transports - sally and ptrain. I was also thinking about a Bison, but nobody had one to spare. And also there's a regular AU8 salvager somewhere in there as well.

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[Tigger]

Mostly we did this as a comparison by two most used smuggling transports - sally and ptrain. I was also thinking about a Bison, but nobody had one to spare. And also there's a regular AU8 salvager somewhere in there as well.

Okay, will rewatch in the morning.

Perhaps one reason why I'm missing the OP complaint is that in my mind I see the sally as more akin to the shire type battle transport than a regular transport such as a BWT or Serenity (old firefly?) - which were common smuggling ships in .85/.86 far more than the ptrain.

I understand things change but I'd like to see some comparisons that aren't as wide apart as that. Shire/Bison would kick butt vs a Ptrain or Serenity as well. Most of the encounters I had before I took a break when I drove a salvager were against more than single opponents as well, such as 2 bombers and a GB.

Granted, I've been back in game for barely a week, but I still fail to see that the sally is OP based on numerous encounters both shooting at them and piloting them through 3 mod versions.

Perhaps it's more of an issue of low server population making team effort piracy more difficult than before? I very rarely encountered solo pirates before on any ship I flew and when I did it wasn't that difficult to fight them off unless they were rather skilled.

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[Sath]

Salvager with solaris turrets. You cant do anything about it, when you are in a normal bomber with snac and EMPs. Get anywhere near it, within 600m and you will be beat dead within 2 or 3 seconds. Add to that a sleek proflie from the back (while chasing one), ability to TS and countermeasures. Oh, and as per the OP, the extraordinary amount of regens. You are sure to get nowhere near it to land a perfect snac shot, well enough to do hull damage. Novas can be evaded with CMs, SNAC is not even a viable option away from 700m (given the thrust speed/solaris range and TS'ing), EMPs are bleh. The only thing that can stand against a solaris salvager is another solaris gb. And guess what? I have 4 salvagers and use them to make quick money, when in need. (inb4 someone comes in with "he hates because he doesn't even use it" argument)

[Thyrzul]

I remember an earlier test of Karst where he has proven that bombers are not the best when it comes to taking out transports. Might be my horrible pvp skills, but my Jaguar was unable to take out his BD thrusting in one straight line for over 50k, however both a Scylla and the Fat Clydesdale with full cerbs raped it in 15k. How about trying out other transports against the Sally?

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[Sath]

That is where the extra regens and solaris gb turrets give the salvager a perk over the normal transports. And as far as cruisers are concerned, given its thrust speed, it can easily thrust away from the cruiser while evading fire from the rear end (it basically looks like a disc exactly from the back). The ideal option would be a gb. There seems to be a counter for every other type of ship out there.

[HuggieSunrise]

Shes.. bigger than a rheinland cruiser. Bigger than a whale I think. she was the only fighting vessel that wasn't 100% transport for many versions of the mod. She has a scrap mining mechanic. She is unique.

I've died more times in my sally as a congressman then on any other ship. I don't see a few hundred bats mattering one way or the other. She can't even cruise disrupt. Firing a razor almost kaputs her core.

I was successfully robbed by a swarm of starfliers in 2011(correction it was 5 fliers and a morph). ... she cant mount a jump coord thing or anything else cool.

Shes huge.. scraps metal and hauls that metal. Im not getting how making the sally 100 or 200 bots lighter helps anything except within a slim set of circumstances that applies to less of a 1% of situations youll find in the server.

Outside of maybe the thought.. if only it didn't regen i coulda killed it.

Thought like that... should not rule gameplay they should inspire one to develop better tactics and better priorities.


but don't take my word for it.

[t0l]

Shes.. bigger than a rheinland cruiser. Bigger than a whale I think. she was the only fighting vessel that wasn't 100% transport for many versions of the mod. She has a scrap mining mechanic. She is unique.

I've died more times in my sally as a congressman then on any other ship. I don't see a few hundred bats mattering one way or the other. She can't even cruise disrupt. Firing a razor almost kaputs her core.

I was successfully robbed by a swarm of starfliers in 2011. ... she cant mount a jump coord thing or anything else cool.

Shes huge.. scraps metal and hauls that metal. Im not getting how making the sally 100 or 200 bots lighter helps anything except within a slim set of circumstances that applies to less of a 1% of situations youll find in the server.

Outside of maybe the thought.. if only it didn't regen i coulda killed it.

Thought like that... should not rule gameplay they should inspire one to develop better tactics and better priorities.


but don't take my word for it.

Times change. TS/TZ, along with Solaris gunboat turrets that are fast enough so they never miss within 600m and enough to chunk snubs while remaining relatively heavy on armor/regens on a miner makes a wonderful ship, perhaps a little too wonderful.

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[Karst]

Seems a lot of people, such as Huggie and Jeni, have not really understood why the Salvager is overpowered.
Case in point:

Perhaps one reason why I'm missing the OP complaint is that in my mind I see the sally as more akin to the shire type battle transport than a regular transport such as a BWT or Serenity (old firefly?) - which were common smuggling ships in .85/.86 far more than the ptrain.

It may be more like a Shire-type battletransport, except with much, much higher survivability.
I'm not even going to mention the GB turrets here.

The Salvager will survive for a longer distance than any other transport while under fire, by a considerable margin.
You can class it as whatever you want. Call it a frigate and say it deserves better defenses, like aerelm, fine.

But the very simple problem with the ship is: It survives for a greater distance than any other transport by virtue of its hull and regens alone, while having sufficient cargo space to make it a viable trade ship.

The closest in survivability that isn't the Raba is the Renzu liner, a vastly slower, fatter, weaker transport.
So you killed a Salvager, and it wasn't too hard? Good for you, you would have killed almost any other transport with even less effort.

Is the model large for its cargo space? Sure. But when you're simply thrusting towards the nearest base you can dock at, it will survive longer than literally any other transport.

The simple fact is, it's too durable to be a trade ship. It lives too long for the distance it covers under fire. No size disadvantage can change that.

Now consider all of the above, and add to that the fact that it can either use really powerful gunboat turrets, or use transport turrets and have infinite core. See the problem here?

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[larzac]

Well, the bigger problem here is that you consider the salvager as a transport. Hey, wake up, it's a FRIGATE. Not a transport, not a battletransport, a frigate. So it's normal that he has different stats. And as aerlem noticed, it has some quite important disadvantage too.

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[Thyrzul]

Heh, I can show you 3350 reasons why it can be considered a transport, buddy.

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