Official Faction Spring Cleaning

[chopper]

While it sounds fair for all factions to be in the same line, I don't think it's possible.
Every faction goes with it's time.
CR probably wouldn't exist if they applied today, not because their proposal is worse, but because the community doesn't really like 'imported stuff'.
So, should we chase them away?
Aren't they loyal members of this community as well? For how long?

But, some basic stuff must be brought in line, yes.
For example, if it was allowed 3 years ago for anyone to use Del Cid line, that doesn't mean it's still allowed today, even though your faction is from that time.
So, basic stuff must meet some standards, yes.

I also think that 'worse-older' factions should be allowed to do as they like, as long as they don't break any of those basic standards or rules.
If they don't improve with the time, people will just join the better ones.
It's their choice.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[bluntpencil2001]

McNeo.... this whole damn thread is double standarding.

i don't have a solution why? because i find every single solution to be completely unfair to those who have tried they're best to run they're faction's have worked they're asses off to get where they are now, to then be told that they are to change.

and il be extremely ill mannered to people who don't even bring other peoples feelings into the equation. other than oh well its harsh do it anyway, because yes this is extremely harsh and anyone who plays here in a faction or leads a faction does not deserve this kind of crap thrown onto them.

its just plain wrong to dictate to someone what they should and should not do, what happened to free will and open mindedness of discovery which it used to boast oh so much? because all i see here is a group of people trying to dictate to others how they should run something they created

Please, there are substantial weaknesses in the position held by Del and Unseelie which Treewyrm has brought up for example, but please argue against the positions themselves instead of attacking the authors of said ideas.

I don't see Del flaming anybody, for instance.

Saying it is just 'plain wrong' isn't a very strong argument. Why is it wrong? I'm sure Del could give reasons as to why it is 'plain right' instead of just saying so as if it were fact.

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[Zelot]

Del- respectfuly, my biggest problem with this idea is that we are say we want older factions to meet the "high standers" we expect from new faction. I have never ever seen any list of what those standards are. AFA was accepted because we just took a NPC group and built a player faction on it, but other groups attempting to gain the official status have languished for a long period of time, never being told what was wrong. These "high standards" we are taking about would have to laid out in a formal type document for this to be effective at all. Right now for example Samura and BU have been waiting to gain official status, it seems they have tried to do everything asked of them to gain the official status, but still nothing. These "standards" are an abstract set of ideas, that would be hard to make into a list, and if we can't articulate what they are, how are we supposed to judge factions by them. If we had some kind of checklist, I could see this as a beneficial idea, but as it stands, the standards we would be applying are way to abstract.

Michael

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[Lohingren]

im pretty sure i dont need to explain why its wrong..... if your a human being you will realize this is a game, this is for fun and this is for a escape. and then poof ... your save file got whiped... one worth 1000+ hours all your work gone... all your stuff gone... like i said, try to look at the person running the said faction thats up on judgment box and look at they're feelings, how you think the said person will feel when or if someone was to come to them and say hey i want a complete overhaul or your out? quite frankly id be shattered if all my work was thrown out the window.

i dont agree with all this 'standards' stuff because quite frankly the standards on this server are to high period. This is a damn game it aint Real life you should not have to work harder on a game than you do real life.

and yes this server is hard work.... extremely hard work. hell ive had jobs that are easier than this server. i might aswell go out and be a pro english teacher, or a role playing god because quite frankly thats what everyone seems to expect from everyone on here nowadays.

EDIT: oh might i add... most of the factions added in since the admins took over have all been npc factions with players playing it.

other than agnus dei i believe. like i said on the RoS feedback thread... good luck trying to get a official faction with a ORIGINAL story and RP ....... because quite frankly... its almost impossible with these standards nowadays. im surprised agnus was allowed.

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Reapers of Sirius Database

[BULLDOGNK]

i dont see why the history of discovery factions should be changed.

The longest factions have a history and history can not be re-written.

Why should anyone change whats been done for years.

i for one will not be changing anything just so some one can get his kicks by saying "I re-wrote the way Discovery has always been"

This is about the People the Factions the Mod, not purist's who want all the same standards for everyone, thats why we have Rules for that purpose.

This is in no way a flame or a dig at anyone, just my own thoughts.

Cheers

[bluntpencil2001]

i dont see why the history of discovery factions should be changed.

The longest factions have a history and history can not be re-written.

We should anyone change whats been done for years.

i for one will not be changing anything just so some one can get his kicks by saying "I re-wrote the way Discovery has always been"

This is about the People the Factions the Mod, not purist's who want all the same standards for everyone, thats why we have Rules for that purpose.

This is in no way a flame or a dig at anyone, just my own thoughts.

Cheers

Now that is a good argument. Retroactively changing stories, whilst possible, is mostly too damn hard to bother trying.

However, if the stories don't get changed, which is fair, things like Zones of Influence, modus operandi, diplomacy and equipment can still be changed, right?

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[BULLDOGNK]

However, if the stories don't get changed, which is fair, things like Zones of Influence, modus operandi, diplomacy and equipment can still be changed, right?

Zones of Influence/diplomacy can not be changed unless the stories change in the Mod.

Equipment can be, like for everyone who uses Nomad weapons, stop using them they are for nomads.
or even tigarsharks that are not corsairs or the Battlestar for indie IMG.

The list is endless and at the end will destroy the Fun of the game. i for one will not be continuing in this thread due to the fact its pointless and wont work.

See you in space people for Fun.

Cheers

[Treewyrm]

Please, people don't let it get personal, because that's what some try to make it look like. I have my responsibilities, you have yours, let's not take the role of those whom we aren't at all. That's one thing, second thing: this was not about my faction in the slightest, as I noted before there are feedback threads popping in and out, both made by myself and other members. And there are actual results made from them. So, on one hand I do support the concept of idea, but on the other hand I don't support the current trend this idea has been going to. So naturally I'm raising concerns here, practical concerns, as you have noted I'm not talking about high ideals around, I keep in practical perspective, because ideas, if they are to make live, has to become practical manifestations, and that is one hell of a thing to worry about, so let's not slip from track.

[Lohingren]

let me put it this way, i used to admin the old nima server. one of the biggest servers around about a year into Freelancer. the 1st to have around 70 people on at a time.

wanna know how the server died?

threads like this. the server died because people began to dictate on how people should play the game. on how they should act ingame. it lasted for a year this petty squabbling to the point everyone left till it was right back down to 10 people on at a time. i dont want to see another server die because of members screwing it up trying to dictate to people how to play a GAME.

im done with this thread but its a bad move on everyones part if you let it to carry on

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Reapers of Sirius Database

[Reverend Del]

Some excellent points were raised whilst I was gone, I will take time to answer as many as are relevant.

First let me say to Tony that story lines for older factions are much less relevant than in game actions, a lot of these factions have been around for a while and as a result have meshed into Discovery, to use an example, the RoS background isn't wholly Freelancer, but their actions have been mostly those of the faction they have chosen to represent. Changing their backstory would mean rewriting a whole bunch of forum posts. Unnecessary and time consuming and frankly irrelevant.

Zelot, yes we the community cannot quantify what it is that makes a faction proposal viable in the eyes of the admins, I think I may have come across as a tad harsh in my last post, I wasn't trying to say that we, the community in general should be able to say change this, or change that. What I was trying to state, and failing it seems, is that if something is plainly out of whack then there should be a mechanism to make that change, as it stands it is solely down to the faction leader to decide and he can say no.

Treewyrm I'm not ignoring the human factor even though it appears that I am. There were a number of issues the RoS thread brought up and Lohingren did do a credible job of not taking anything personally and addressing the concerns raised, in an adult manner. This is not about dragging someone in front of a Kangaroo court and demanding they shape up, the community input is their for help and guidance as with any new faction proposal. I'm not suggesting that all factions be run how I would run one, that's frankly ridiculous. You're right. We've had four threads and all have been polite and well considered. Time to tkae that data and see how it can be used to make this more than a bunch of folks waving pitchforks and burning torches, trying to get some arbitrary sense of right and wrong placed into each and every status.

Finally Lohingren, my previous post was not an attack on the RoS, believe me it wasn't, but this server has some 2000 people all trying to play this game, some rules must be in place, rules that govern how each and every member should act in regards to it. I am merely proposing that each and every faction be held to a similar set of rules, much as each and every player is expected to follow the main server rules. I just need to take time to consider how this can be done without causing undue workload.

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.