Piracy according to the rules

[Zelot]

Ok, I don't know why, but I figure I'll put in my 2 credits. First off, I have seen lots of people criticizing "2mil or die" and I try not to use it. The one exception is traders who wont RP and wont stop, a trader doesn't want to give me a chance to do good RP, then he wont get it. "2mil or die" is only 11 key strokes and you know what, it comply with the rules and is easy. Now there are lots of traders out there who want to RP with you, and those who don't, those who don't arnt going to stop and arnt going to appreciate the RP any way, so I give them the quick message and take them down as quick as I can, and SS a few times because it seems more and more traders have gotten "cloaking" devices lately. To the person talking about pirating in Sig 13...get over it, you chose the place you pirate, if you pirate in a place that is hard, and you don't have time to comply with the rules, find another place to pirate. You have a choice, so don't complain that its too hard to follow the rules, when you choose how hard it is going to be. To traders, Baltar is right, you complain about everything, so look to yourselves, if you don't give someone enough time to type something, I don't want to hear complaints when what you get it "2mil or die" Thats my opinion, it just seems pirates complain about how pirating should be easier, and traders complain about how trading should be easier. It's the nature of such things.

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[Eternal]

From what I read you have a realy bad memory.I was 2k from you when you thrusted to hole.And after that you didn't stop again and again.

My memory is just fine, as well as My Fraps. Let's see.........Yep. I am not require to stop. You, on the other hand, are required to state a price before killing traders. Review the rules.

You gonna pay the BH to kill me...:lol: FINE. You know if you put a hefty price on my head and there are alot of 'em.I'll just be a sport and sit in one place till they kill me. I have absolutly NOTHINK valuable on my pirat chars to loose.So you pay the BH and I run of somewhere else to play.Who looses in this situation , huh ? ;)
That's up to you. If you want to sit in one spot and get killed by BH's, then all means...go ahead. I am sure the BH's won't mind an easy kill or an easy paycheck. Either way, that's 4 hours your out of business.
Oh....and that's IF the BH's want payment. Some of them of them hunt for free or favors. *smiles*

And as for 'Nothing of worth on your ship'......hhhmmmm....well, if you keep on your course of your current thinking, I am sure it won't be too long before you get reported, fined,ship stripped,etc,etc.

Now, if your done with your personal attacks on me and you don't have anything else postive to add to the thread....let's move on.

QUOTE
6.19 Pirates and terrorists have a right to deal as much damage as they see fit before or after demanding money from a trader ship, but killing trader ship before demanding money is not allowed. Attacking traders or demanding cargo is not allowed for cruisers and battleships, unless cruisers and battleship belong to Terrorist ID or Phantom ID owner.

Oh, the way some pirates bypass the rule is they state: ''2mil or die.'' With that simple , No RP , 9 letter statement, the pirates now can just go on the PvP-killing mode.

1st of I just gotta say this - *I can type in colour but I can't quote*:mellow:

Ok , get started shall we.I actually enjoy and give huge RP speaches with every char I use and have.Some people are smart and listen to me.Then we have a nice chat togheter and after that.This may come like a shock to you but I'm actually a decent RP'er.Since you never stopped to listen to me , I KNOW you don't trust me , thats why you can ask other traders 'bout there encounters with me.After I have a pleasant chat with people(traders in this matter) I just let them go without paying me anythink.I write there names on a sheet of papper near my desk to remind me to have a pleasant chat with them some other time.Some of them actually stop ME to give me a donation to the clan.But some people just get on my nerves.I try to stop a trader , he F1'ns (at that time I didn't know it was illegal) and comes with a Cruiser to atack me and say's that every time I try to pirate his trader (there are the same person if you havan't figured it out) he will come again and kill me.I'm gonna get sanctioned you say , for what ? Maby if you stop and listen to my RP chat you would think like that.Or maby there gonna sanction me 'cuz almost every time I see a new player come to the server.Usually I'm with my LC , and they have no money I start to explain some of the servers features and give them money to buy a good transport if they need it.I do this 'cuz I try to be nice like the person who helped me from the start with money and some info on the server.So I try to do the same.Why not give someone money ? I can buy 5 BS in somethink less then a week , If I want to.The point I'm trying to state is that money isn't realy a problem to this game.It's fairly easy to buy EVERYTHINK you can want.So thats why I hate traders who try to play smart with me.I mean realy.....An adv. train makes somethink like 10m per shipping , I ask for 1-2m and you try to make a big deal of it.Odds are I wont be there when you return and even if I am , I don't tax players again for somethink like 5-6 hours , aldo I have every right to tax you every time I see you.Wich is actully what I plan to do with some traders.You tell me that I should be scared that I'll get a bounty on my head...You crack me up...Thats the reason I strarted playing! And what do you think would happen if I get a bounty.I'll ask a friend of mine to come kill all he wants and then post the kills in the forum.Where does this leave us then.It's realy simple math > you loose alot of money for the bounty (more then one time)>I loose nothink (like I said , I have nothink of value on the pirat chars. + I get a bounty for my head wich is sorta the main reason I started playing this game)>My friend gets money.Your statement *you will be out of buisnees for 4 hours* :lol: Hiring someone to kill me is one think , usually costs 'round 5-10m for the hit , but hiring someone to stay in ONE system for 4 hours without leaving will costs you...ALOT.'Cuz when he gets the screen he need and we have a nice chat he will usually leave this system and then I can come back and pirate you , or anyone else again.Or just go somewhere else to pirate.You see , actully you can't realy do anythink.I never did intend to argue with you but It's somethink in me that realy doesn't like people like you.And after all , I never EVER did somethink like that when I'm in the server.I will always try to make a good RP whenever it is possible.So you can't complain too...Fact still remains I'm a noob pilot , but a fairly good RP'er.Trust me , If I want to have a reason to KoS you , I can find one.I LEAD somethink close to 5 diffrennt RP games in other forums and I'm planning to start writing stories here. So whats to stop me from making a 1000 word story that clearly gives me RP reasons to ...how should I say it...blast you on sight.I wont do that ofcource....you aren't worth my time.

edit-I read alot of people who say that I *whine*.....I'm just stating the obvios.That is part of the problem the trader-pirate have.I just want this crystal clear.I'm not whining.

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[ryoken]

No thats not legal. If the LSF agent has scanned your cargo bay and taken a screen we will stop you on launch and attempt to fine you for your crime, if you refuse to co-operate then you will be engaged . But you should never be killed straight out of hand.


Well then you have 2 LSF cheater's. last night after leaving junker base 2 fighter killed me before i even had them on radar. Since this is ilegal, LSF owes me 2mil in losses,for the legal cargo, and ammo i lost coming out of the base. If not, i will consider them renagade's and KOS.:angry::angry::angry::angry:

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[Baltar]

With so many complaints about pirates, maybe the pirate thing needs to be nerfed.

Typical ... let me guess ... you are a trader that gets pirated a lot?

You do know that Xoria runs probably the best pirating faction on Discovery, don't you? I get RP from the Hackers every time I've been pirated. However the point of this thread was to ensure that pirates are aware that "Stop!" is not a demand per the rules. Thusly you cannot utter such and destroy them for refusing to comply. A demand for credits or cargo must be made. This is not a "whine at the pirates" thread, it's a "get your bloody act together and stop acting like terrorists" thread.

I know who Xoria is ... and I'm just guessing that you don't know me. I RP every event possible. Unfortunately ... traders don't wanna play along.

The word "Stop" is perfectly legal for a pirate to use. So is "halt." Lawful factions do not have special privilege to use these words. If I say "Stop or die" its equivalent of me saying "Do not run or you'll be sorry." I can say whatever I need to say to get you to stop. So long as I make a demand for credits or cargo before the trader's ship explodes and he has an opportunity to respond ... everything is within the server rules.

If you wanna argue RP of the use of those words ... get over it. If you want ... we can just go back to the old "2 mil or die" line and be done with it. I personally say "500k if you give voluntarily ... 2 mil if you make me work for it." That gives the trader an option to pay me 500k voluntarily (much cheaper). I'd say about 75% actually stop and pay the 500k. As to the rest ... if they run, chances are they aren't gonna pay the 2 mil anyway (unless their cargo is worth far more).

This argument is frivolous. The rule only specifies that the pirate must demand some cargo or money before he is destroyed. It does not limit what can be said BEFORE the demand for cargo or money is made.

And yes it is a whine at the pirates. If you encounter a pirate that does not make a demand for money or cargo then report him via the violation reports thread. THIS thread is an attempt to try pirates by forum.

Admins: Can we shut this thread down since it serves no purpose? If they encounter a pirate that does not demand money or cargo before they kill the trader ... there's already a rule to solve this. There is no need to place pirates on the forum chopping block because someone doesn't like HOW a pirate goes about telling the trader to stop.

[Spear]

Well then you have 2 LSF cheater's. last night after leaving junker base 2 fighter killed me before i even had them on radar. Since this is ilegal, LSF owes me 2mil in losses,for the legal cargo, and ammo i lost coming out of the base. If not, i will consider them renagade's and KOS.:angry::angry::angry::angry:

Do you have evidence? If so report it. Dock-rape is never legal while un-docking as we all know.

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=LSF=

[Doom]

As pirate as well as trader i do agree that pirates act sometimes very out of RP...Naturally, traders are no better...

I have that privilege that one of my ships wears terrorist ID so i do have somewhat bigger freedom of choosing how i will act if trader doesn't stop after my i tell him too...However i very rarely kill without money or cargo demand...
But i base large portion of my decision what my next move will be on traders reaction...if he is willing to RP with me i will treat him with respect but he will know who is the boss...if i get only NO, or suck it or something along those lines...well then...i will most probably ignore him (after i kill him:crazy:)

I do the same with pirates as trader...if their first words show good RP i will stop and after nice little chat with them i will pay money they ask...if i get 2 mill or die message..only answer they will get is my 6 turrets firing back at them...

Whole point of my blabbering above is; we need to treat each other with respect and keep in RP ALL the time...it takes two to tango (or RP in this case)

[Xoria]

Baltar, you should reread my first post.
Nowhere did I say that "stop" or "halt" are illegal, illegitimate, oorp, or worthless statements for a pirate to make to a trader. My pirates use them fairly often as an opening statement to help me evaluate what sort of trader I am dealing with. But I am not the sort of pirate whom my trader frequently encounters who seems to believe that "halt" is a commandment from god and traders who do not obey should be KOS'd from that point on.
My entire point was and is that "stop" and "halt" by themselves do not fulfill the requirements of the server rules, and there are pirates on this server and forum who believe that they do. Those pirates are wrong, and a great discredit to the rest of us who work extremely hard at committing piracy correctly.
And if you don't like this thread so much, then it is hypocritical of you to keep posting in it, just like it is hypocritical for people to object to a public rebuke by making yet another public rebuke.

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[Baltar]

"Stop or die" does NOT constitute Piracy, it constitutes terrorism, which is illegal if you don't have a terrorist ID.

This is the part of your statement that has me concerned. Please clarify what you say here. Left alone you are basically saying that "Stop or die" is sanctionable speech.

However, my point is that if I say "Stop or die" to get you to actually stop ... so long as I demand money or cargo I am still within role play and still within the rules. The point is to get the trader to actually stop his ship. After he stops there needs to be some sort of demand before the ship goes boom.

Your point about KoS of the trader is valid. That is terrorism ... then you know my opinion of KoS ... its a lame excuse to avoid RP dialogue and engage in PVP. As a pirate ... I may have a list of traders that I hunt more frequently because they refuse to pay or role play. But they are never KoS. By the same token ... if I say "stop or die" and the trader keeps running ... I'm going to CD him and tear his shields to nothing and get his hull to at least 50% to make my point clear. I will however, make a point to make my demand for money or cargo well before he is destroyed. By running, the trader is saying he'd "rather die than pay" ... which by the way is a typical response from traders which is also OORP.

EDIT: Because I don't like a thread does not mean I avoid commenting in it. And it does not make me a hypocrite (which is an inflammatory word). I post on the threads that are relevant to my characters and my role play. I don't want my pirate lumped into this category.

[Reverend Del]

Baltar you are right there, so long as you back up "Stop or die" with a demand for cargo or credits, you are not sanctionable. But the point of this thread was to remind some pirates that "stop or die" is not a demand for cargo or credits by itself, and thusly cannot be used as the basis for killing a trader.

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.

[Xoria]

This is the part of your statement that has me concerned. Please clarify what you say here. Left alone you are basically saying that "Stop or die" is sanctionable speech.

Wrong.
"Stop or die" followed by a kill shot and no demand for cargo or credits is sanctionable behavior. You are attempting to read between lines that I didn't even write.

EDIT: Because I don't like a thread does not mean I avoid commenting in it. And it does not make me a hypocrite (which is an inflammatory word).

Posting only to flame a topic and thus prolong its notoriety while demanding that it be locked is hypocritical, and the truth usually is inflammatory to those who are headed in the opposite direction.Bad behavior is bad behavior, and I'm not going to obsequiously sugarcoat it.
Being nice is not a virtue, despite what this postmodern world would have you believe. Kindness is a virtue. It isn't nice to grab someone by the hair and jerk them back three feet. But it isn't kind to watch while they walk right off of a cliff. So no, I wasn't nice, but I was kind in that I pointed out your poor behavior rather than allow you to blissfully proceed as if it wasn't.
Other than that, read my signature. It's there for a reason.

I post on the threads that are relevant to my characters and my role play. I don't want my pirate lumped into this category.

Except that this time, you didn't post in a thread that was relevant to your characters, since you deny that you pirate in violation of the server rules, which is the entire point of this thread. Several players who pirate have claimed in threads recently that it was perfectly ok to blow up traders without making financial demands, and the first post in this thread clearly and factually refutes that sort of behavior. If you don't behave this way, then this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with you, yet you jump into it with both feet and then claim to be insulted by your supposed "inclusion" in it. The only one who has included you in this topic is you. If you want out, then delete the contents of your posts.

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