Zoners - why they do exist?

[The Savage]

You don't necessarily need bunters to prevent inter-house conflict, all you need is communication and cooperation. Besides that though bunters are not a bad idea.

I think Bunters are more like a cleaning tool in the space that cannot be reached by House Authorities. Then again, that would be the best explanation for now, as I think we should take into account that trying to enforce different laws in Kepler and Hudson would be quite problematic.

I have been a witness when BPA And LN elements met each other in Cortez, and one guy with 5 artifacts on board was directly at Curacao. Both authorities had different opinion on these, as they wanted to enforce their own codex. It almost ended up in bloodshed, as BPA warned LN to not to assault vessel and declared the vessel will be protected by Bretonian Crown. In the end, guy left for Coronado, if my memory serves me right.

[Doria]

Well, fluff, since you say you were making a theoretical question, and "was asking about the sociopolitical reasons behind existence of Zoners" and not discussing game mechanics, then my point about the server rules turns irrelevant. Luckly, Spazzy and Karst explained that on a more "inRP" way.

But I want to talk about the notion that Zoners are "off-house freelancers". There is a basic difference between a freelancer and a zoner: most freelancer live in a house, are house citizens, they just prefer to work for themselves or they cannot work for a corporation. Zoners decided to leave the houses, they are not house citizens, they don't care about the houses, they prefer the dangers of the outer-worlds than the corruption of the houses. And freelancers have all that bounty-hunter part that has nothing to do with Zoners.

And, speaking of the "neutral diplomacy" of the Zoners, anyone that runs around with that "you can't pirate me" attitude is a fool. It's very hard to be neutral. You end up in lots of "sticky" situations. Like trying to make Corsairs and Core not to clash right outside Freeport 11. But THAT'S the fun in it! The most enjoyable RP's I had on zoner chars were always walking that thin line between friend and enemy. Playing the double agent game and pretending to be friends with both sides of a conflict can give very fun RP.

Oh, and by the way, someone said "try to make zoners hostile to some house". Well, zoners were once red with gallia (not that anyone went there, but at that time we had to go there for the cryocubes) and OSI is stilll banned from Rheinland for a failure in that "double agent" game I was talking about.

[Thyrzul]

But I want to talk about the notion that Zoners are "off-house freelancers". There is a basic difference between a freelancer and a zoner: most freelancer live in a house, are house citizens, they just prefer to work for themselves or they cannot work for a corporation. Zoners decided to leave the houses, they are not house citizens, they don't care about the houses, they prefer the dangers of the outer-worlds than the corruption of the houses. And freelancers have all that bounty-hunter part that has nothing to do with Zoners.

So basically you are saying that freelancers are in-house folks (though they not necessary are) while Zoners are off-house folks, because reasons. But that's pretty much like saying Zoners are off-house freelancers, or if it sounds more convenient, the off-house version of freelancers.

Besides, really nothing in Zoner RP would prevent Zoners to do bounty hunting, I firmly believe that is also a result of balance, because someone thought it is a good idea to give them military grade warships colony ships and carriers, hoping that your random player would use them as what they are meant to be and wouldn't go offensive with 22 turrets of neutrality.

Oh, and just a thought, I myself would rather not use OSI as an example to support my points in relation to Zoner RP. It looks strange to explain the behavior, habits and conduct of a bunch who left houses because of all the corporate control, government corruption and all the bureaucracy coming with the system through the example of a faction ending up as just another off-house megacorporation. But hey, that's just me, if others can retain their credibility while arguing this way, good for them.

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[Doria]

Don't pretend you don't understand something just to talk banta poodoo about it.

Oh, and by the way, a bounty-hunter zoner faction would die faster than you can say "council sucks".

[Thyrzul]

I can't really see any reason why couldn't Zoner mercenaries keep their neutrality like any other mercenaries can. What would be different?

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[n00bl3t]

I love these threads. Exceptional.

But he's not entirely wrong though. Zoner ID/RP is barely used competently, and as I said in an earlier post they were intended to remain background NPCs. There's certainly some good RP out there (I hope) but most of my experiences with Zoners has been negative.

I am actually extremely pleased that in recent updates we finally have infocards denouncing the utter rubbish that is Zoner unity or Zoners having any sort of real power in Sirius. Hopefully it'll lead to less players being blinded by fallacy and playing the role as they should be.

Just wanted to run the idea of not shooting everything that doesn't kowtow to you as a potential basis for roleplay interactions. Might help. Maybe your reputation on the characters you're playing precedes you. Just an idea. Maybe.

ZonerZonerZoner has existed since like 2007 (technically, probably around 2009 with the [A] drama I guess), so what you're actually saying is there have never been good Zoners? Somehow I doubt that's what you mean, but it is literally impossible to play a canon lore friendly Zoner in-game, because as I said before, they barely count as traders. People go to them and not vice versa. If people were to play them entirely straight, they'd have nothing to do in-game; just like IC.

Also, another thing I find funny is that people usually cite Zoner drama as being started by indies that were acting improperly. This was generally completely untrue. Usually the only time there'd be a drama big enough for anyone to care about, it was because a Zoner faction had done something, or an indy that was a representative of an entire Freeport (consequently with the backing of whichever Zoner governing body/factions were around at the time). People can differentiate and know when a character/group is important enough to cause drama over.

There has been plenty of indy Zoner abuse though, and that generally occured after the drama cycle had begun. See: official factions fouling up relations with the Corsairs, and then indy Nephs raiding Gamma with the Order. Indy abuse and the ID being blatantly overpowered compared to corporate groups was also the reason the ZoI rules were severely nerfed as well. I wouldn't blame indies acting badly for instigating Zoner drama though.

2007? Anyone want to remember far back to Asgard Warriors time? Imagine that being judged by current forum standards.

Having said that, I just wanted to say that it's hard to roleplay with "yalalala jihad" and pew pew for Skype-buddy OoRP hatred. It's just difficult. It could have been handled better, but looking at one side in isolation isn't probably the best way to go about it. Everyone chants Zonerzonerzoner and conspir[A]cy as a result though, and that along with the bias against Zoner players on the forums means it's unlikely that the situation will ever be viewed impartially.

It looks strange to explain the behavior, habits and conduct of a bunch who left houses because of all the corporate control, government corruption and all the bureaucracy coming with the system through the example of a faction ending up as just another off-house megacorporation. But hey, that's just me, if others can retain their credibility while arguing this way, good for them.[/color][/align]

Let's not beat around the bush. When Zoner trade was nerfed via ID restrictions so they couldn't land on house bases to purposely neutralise them for the benefit of house corporation factions at the detriment of Zoner factions, OSI retained the ability to trade within house space with 5k transports.

It was designed as a neutrality powertrader faction with a forum presence to make it seem more legitimate and verbose members who could talk themselves out of being considered in the same vein as independents neutrality trading with the Zoner ID.

[The Savage]

I can't really see any reason why couldn't Zoner mercenaries keep their neutrality like any other mercenaries can. What would be different?

For the very same reason why Freelancer hired by GRN is usually forced to pay reparations to Liberty, instead of stating "that's my job, you could have paid more".




@n00bl3t
I would love to remind one thing.

We are not speaking about in-game aspect, just about purely sociopolitical aspect, completely disconnected from all rules, IDs, bounty boards, forums, gameplay, etc. Zoners aren't Space Switzerland, because the latter do not shelter criminals and terrorists.

[Thyrzul]

I can't really see any reason why couldn't Zoner mercenaries keep their neutrality like any other mercenaries can. What would be different?

For the very same reason why Freelancer hired by GRN is usually forced to pay reparations to Liberty, instead of stating "that's my job, you could have paid more".

Then again, what would be the difference between hypothetical Zoner mercenaries and currently existent freelancers?

It's still pretty much up to the parties in conflict to decide how to deal with a politically neutral third party, who's allegiance is only towards money, whether alienate it even more and thus give them more reasons to be hostiles other than quick cash, or make use of their services against the foes in conflict the same way those did against them. And in that context it doesn't matter if the hunter is an in-house or an off-house dweller.

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[n00bl3t]

@n00bl3t
I would love to remind one thing.

We are not speaking about in-game aspect, just about purely sociopolitical aspect, completely disconnected from all rules, IDs, bounty boards, forums, gameplay, etc. Zoners aren't Space Switzerland, because the latter do not shelter criminals and terrorists.

If that was the case, your answer's already been given to you over the last few pages.

[Doria]

By the way, I can think now of like 4 names of people that have prison warrants in my country that have bought a citizenship and we are waiting for switzerland to follow the regulations they agreed on when they applied for the european union, but they wont, meanwhile all the money is being washed...

You are right, they are not space zoners, because zoners follow their agreements.