The following idea/suggestion/proposal is quite radical and WILL trigger lots of people. It needs to be addressed and has been thought about quite a bit. Read at your own warning and slowly with no haste. It is recommended to take two sandwiches before replying to this thread. Viewer discretion is advised.
Ores are a high price because it requires team effort to get. The money then has to be split between the miner and the trader. With the high total profit there is then a good individual profit as well.
Mining is less team-based at the moment. A miner can be the same guy that trades with a transport with little effort required is a base is supplied. There are therefor less miners out in space as the miner will log on for a good hour or so and mine enough for enough ores to last for a long period of time. The lack of miners that are stationary targets makes less targets for pirates to catch.
It is also much more easier for a transport to get access to 3-4 different bases that sell ores and do a whole circle of trading just ores to make HIGH profit. This can be done on ANY ID as long as it has good relations with the bases it lands on. Other commodities suffer from this and become inferior as the ore commodity becomes to the trader a non-team commodity.
Lets face it. It isnt enough that PoBs cannot be next to a mining spot. Ores will still be sold on the base with whatever price the owner gives, allowing the possibility of large gains in profit if the miner sacrifices his pay.
Positives:
-More frequent mining in space. Miners to be called more frequently to mine for others.
-More evident teamwork between the miner and trader.
-Other commodities a possibility when no miners are around.
-Piracy on stationary miners = interaction and RP.
Negatives:
-Mining factions that stock-pile ores on bases will become effected and will need to re-work their methods of mining. This can be done as easy as mining for yourself as well as for others and then coming back with a transport to getting your fill.
-Economy of buying/selling ores on PoBs will be lost. (debatable if this is bad or good)
-No more buying ores at whatever price you want which could be a good RP thing.
-Will make some PoBs useless as they are created for the purpose of collecting ores. There will need to be other ideas for the bases to continue.
-Others... (I'm sure people in replies will think of something )
Now that you have read it: relax.
Take 2 mins.
Lets begin a civilized discussion.
Would this be a good idea? Moving towards mining that was before the introduction of PoBs?
Have PoBs helped or no?
(and before anyone says anything. Yes. I have been involved with storing ores on PoBs. Call me a hypocrite if you want . )
A tough One. This WILL Enrage a lot of people. I agree that traders actually get a better price when getting it directly from a customer. And i think this would open up more options for POB's to fill the void created by the removal of Miner Bases.
Yet i also see people put work into what they have.
I'm torn, while it sounds like a great idea to increase player interaction I feel that it would be a determent to those of us on the "night shift"
I currently can only log from around midnight server time to 4 or 5 in the morning, I depend on PoB's with ores because it can often be difficult to find a miner in your zone when only a dozen or so people on, that being said there are nights where I can easily find a miner to suit my needs. This coupled with the Admin Order about Core 2+ bases in mining zones might increase pirate/miner interaction. But I wouldn't like it
Here is the thing.
I like how for example IMG does their mining that they first fill their base and/or just fill each other and go do the convoy.
The filling + convoy thing is really cool and gets great activity from both sides.
But then there are people, including me, that even when you participate in the convoy we also get ores later from the base. Miners are then not needed for a while.
The ores should have been in an ideal situation only available if a guy is around to mine them for you. If not then you gotta mine it yourself and carry it around in your smaller haul. That is how it worked back in the old day and it encourages convoys and people staying together.
With PoBs acting like a storage depot though and selling ores whenever you come and pass by you are stopping a lot of activity and interactions that would happen otherwise. Without the base you would be calling skype if there are any miners around.
If you are on a night shift or just cannot find miners then you turn to the other commodities that are around to your disposal.
Here's the one. Factions that mine lets you choose whether Fighter, Miner and Transport Division. You can choose all 3 if you want. After you Mine for your team and put it in POB's they can pay you half the price they get in selling the Mined Goods in the POB. Then after the base is filled you can change to your transport and join the caravan to sell the Goods for higher price.
1. FOW, RA and maybe crew and hull segments need money. i belive every faction has a ore storage in their pobs cause the (later in time) ore trading earns the money for the base.
2. i know the problem of beeing an miner on my own, no trans in sight. and its annoing to sit in that small funny img miner - mine like hell and for 1m working 8min to the dealer. :-( the whole shipclass of light miners will become obsolete
3. i know the problem of beeing a transport, empty, near a mining field no miner or better johnny walker alike around. maybe the nearby base? and: pobs not ever have enough ore to fill a transport.
at least: i think. in the sum are the consequenses of the negatives overwelming the few positives
The thing is though before the PoBs were around the miners were still active in game.
When you logged a miner it was 8/10 times becasue you were filling someone else. Not mining yourself.
Teamwork becasue of this was key to success.
But now... you have miners on default using the base as a transport team member to hold all the cargo and then switching to a transport to haul it. It's not horrible but it also looses some of the interaction between miner and trader.
I mean... when is the last time you saw a miner posting on forums looking for traders to team up with to mine?
I've seen that when there was no PoBs around. That was pretty cool. You had to go actually FIND a group if you wanted to mine effectively.
That's why mining factions were so popular too!
I understand though the other side of things though....
Agreed. PoBs kill interactive mining and also small mining ships except some specific scenarios . And the ore stored gets hauled again without much interaction.
you are talking about the teamwork,yeah..that was nice in the past,however who can form a team now with current players numbers: "Me,Myself & I " <---do you really think that will work?
this is a discussion that is meant to be held when or if we had more players..
People want to believe that God has a plan for them.
They don't wanna believe that anyone else does..
I agree that it would be cooler if tons of miners were constantly buzzing around the mining areas.
However, let's face it: it is not the reality.
Especially in off hours like European night, you will never find a miner if you do not bring your own group of friends.
Bases offer you a chance to still do what you want to do: mine into it. Switch. Trade it.
I think it is a mistake to believe that - if ore trading PoB were gone - suddenly miners would be around.
Ore trading PoB services were introduced by many groups to allow for mining when there is no one around.
I am not sure whether your suggestion would fix anything. I could even think of negative consequences like mining becoming even more of an unimportant side aspect of Disco if more and more players just switch to high profit trade routes, which are already yielding great profits - and in events even better than trading coop mined ore.
What needs to be gone is all the POBs that sit in or right next to the fields. They are absolute activity killers, but that's a complete different topic.
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