I would quickly like to point out t....(I forgot to change the accs, but whatever), that there is another issue with this.
New players are never taught that Pirates are a part of the server's RP environment. If they are more familiar with other games where extortion is possible, such as EvE Online, they will come here with the experience that pirates for the most part are simply not worth interacting with or wasting time on as piracy is, in their view, a purely oorp encounter.
New players should be introduced from the day one that piracy is a type of roleplay and is a player interaction. That being said, pirates also should treat such interaction as roleplay and not just a short-lived gauge-fest. But there are only that many things you can ask from a trader. I've seen people do some stupid stuff as well, such as trying to make their roleplay seem unique by pirating people for pants or bras or whatever.
If you want to spice up your piracy attempts and give the trader something new, perhaps you should try things as point a gun at them and tell them to "Explain to me why the Rogues are your best friends, or else." or make them say something in system chat, such as how "the rogues are better than the navy" or such. Most pirates, especially those who pirate in GBs with cap6s have no real reason to pirate for those two millions anyway. Be creative.
Project shelved. Refer to this thread for further details.
When I pirate I usually somewhat try to judge a player's experience, and their level is usually a good guide. Depending on the value of the cargo I usually don't demand more than 5 million per instance. Less if they seem newb or genuinely broke. However player faction tagged ships I always treated a little differently. Regardless of it all, if a lvl 80-90 wants to refuse a fairly reasonable demand, I don't feel any guilt in opening fire. Then of course there are other role-play considerations I took into account when pirating certain players or factions, which would increase the price of a demand.
I know even 5 million seems low, and in a way, for one encounter it is. Yet we still run into times when you have more than one pirate hitting a ship, either at the same time, or one encounter follows another shortly after. Traders can wind up being pinched multiple times, so with average players of average level and equipment, I keep it to 2-4 million per demand on average. Reasonable demands are more likely to wind up being paid. Someone out to pirate is usually out to get paid before having to fight. I'd rather pirate 4 ships for 3-4 mil each than pirate one of them for 20 and wind up fighting and (likely) losing the ship to a base. If traders know you keep your demands low they won't be so afraid to cross your path again.
(12-26-2015, 06:40 PM)Qurchak Wrote: Transports were nerfed? I didn't know, nice, nice, I'll need to test it now. I usually tax traders more when I notice they try to fool me (paying just 5M for train full of ore), or when they try run or stall the RP while waiting for help, so I go harsh on them. Maybe admins should sanction traders for kill me its cheaper "rp" ?
Transports got their armor nerfed by a reasonable chunk.
The way I like to harass a transport while i'm waiting for him to pay me is shooting down his shields, maybe do a little bit of hull damage, would keep him on edge.
And setting a reasonable time period to pay (say 30 seconds or so).
Ah, yes, proving my point: payordai, seeyabai. Not enough time to RP, then complain that they don't want to interact.
One of the things I often find frustrating is the number of people that pirate from IDs that are used as nothing more than an exploit to get around the limitations inherent in the generic Pirate ID.
If I encounter a Hessian, I Want to Encounter a Hessian, not a Pirate with a Hessian ID who knows that the game plays easier because he has less limitations. The same applies to Hackers, Gaians, etc. If you never do anything to justify your use of that particular ID, then you are being a Munchkin by abusing the spirit, if not the letter, of the ID.
a poor pirate , the tears , the reasonable cry of despare ...
WHY! WHY! WHY! the victims refuse to be victims , they don't pay!!
some of them even try to get away !!!
some of them dare to fight !!!
some of them come after us , put bounties , why why ???
Ooohhhh poor pirates , maybe we should treat them better , us the bad bad victims who fight back or refuse to pay ...
Well i think i found a solution i'll keep killing them , refusing to pay , putting Bounties , going after them ... basicly killing them is the option i like the most ..oh i forgot they will cry about that , oh i remember i don't care at all ....
SPACE IS A DARK COLD, GUTS NEEDED, PLACE TO BE
Your signature was eating my mobile data, so I optimized it for you under Rule 2.2. ~ Squad
In my opinion the situation is the result of bad decision making - for the most part at least - in terms of trader/pirate balance.
I believe that a pirate / trader encounter is more fun - the more both sides are equal in strength. In many cases in disco - the options of a trader are "run and dock" or "die/pay". (stuff like flying above the plane, use the list to avoid pirates by taking detours etc does not apply because that is not part of the encounter/balance - and does not really go much into actual combat balance for combat ship vs. combat ship either)
I have been flying a FA bomber for a very long time ... and the best encounters as a pirate were when
- i asked rather for a token (i usually do not ask for more than 500k) than actual profit
- i pirated transports that had MULTIPLE options to react (close docking ports and especially escorts...)
Now why is it that in my experience i get better encounters the more equal the power is?
It is becasue the trader does not feel the systemic resignation. He is given REAL options. He knows that he can decide to fight - and with escorts ... get a GOOD chance to escape or even destroy me. Or he asks his escorts to keep me locked down so he can escape with a good chance of success. Or he pays the rather low demand and leave with a mostly pleasent chat.
The point of a demand is that it must not be so much to actually "hurt" the trader. To me - a successful pirate encounter is one that leaves both sides with a feeling of success. That means not to ask for too little - because asking for 10 credits is silly - but asking for just enough to cover your pirates ammo costs and possible repairs is fully inRP for me.
My worst encounters happened when i was asking for too much (like drop all your cargo) or catching traders in situations that left them literally only the option to pay too much - or die. The traders simply were not up to put much into the situation. When your choices are to pay so much that it really gives you stomach aches or be blown up.... a NATURAL (but of course slightly spiteful) reaction is "just kill me".
It is the reaction of "burned earth" - ... "you ask so much that it ruins my run so much that i decide that denying you your profit is worth ruining mine!"
-
So in terms of balance - i would much rather see traders that can fight a bomber with a good chance of winning. I would much rather like to see traders that ... when they form convoys ... literally waste any lone or team pirate ... that would require pirate FLEETS to pirate them.
Options is what enriches gameplay experience. Predetermined encounters that flag each side as master/slave are boring. When all your options are "to get your cargo from A to B" - trading is boring. The most challenging part of being a pirate is to FIND a juicy trader ... not to extort him - which is a shame. The extorting should be the challenging part - not the browsing of the player list.
-
Strangely however - this is a rather unpopular opinion - and most people think that increasing the power of pirates over traders results in better encounters.
edit: (my thesis)
- The profit waiting at the end of a traders run is not equal to winning an encounter. only REAL options can enrich an encounter. ("do because you CAN" is a recipe for failure)
- any encounter between equal sides is much more fun than any encounter between sides of greatly different strength.
- never ask for so much that it makes the other player feel bad. (within reason)
- the more the other side enjoys being pirated, the more they will try to make you enjoy your pirating.
- aviod traders in situations where their only options are to pay or die. This kind of choice will most likely not promote any promising quality RP.
- allow yourself to sometimes retreat and accept to loose against a trader that turned from victim to hunter. Always winning is boring.
(12-26-2015, 06:40 PM)Qurchak Wrote: Transports were nerfed? I didn't know, nice, nice, I'll need to test it now. I usually tax traders more when I notice they try to fool me (paying just 5M for train full of ore), or when they try run or stall the RP while waiting for help, so I go harsh on them. Maybe admins should sanction traders for kill me its cheaper "rp" ?
Transports got their armor nerfed by a reasonable chunk.
The way I like to harass a transport while i'm waiting for him to pay me is shooting down his shields, maybe do a little bit of hull damage, would keep him on edge.
And setting a reasonable time period to pay (say 30 seconds or so).
Ah, yes, proving my point: payordai, seeyabai. Not enough time to RP, then complain that they don't want to interact.
I only do it because traders will most likely call their buddies, and when they do I feel so stupid for even interacting and wasting my time with them.
You cannot know what trader is the type who will RP or calls his friends to gank on you.
Piracy is a bad way to make money anyways, so mostly I would actually look for RP with traders, but nah, most are silent and/or calling their friends when we type our novels at each other, so doing the restrictions you quoted me from above is a sure way I don't get to die so easily.
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