Updated System Cull - List & Discussion

[Blodwyn O'Driscoll]

I don't see why Mollys can't exist without Londonderry

I thought you knew the Mollys....
My bad.


Anyway, i'll write a more elaborate post about the subject to explaining the consequences, like i did when we talked with Teerin.

---

That is the crux of the matter.
If you aid us, and you aid them, you are the enemy.
If you do not aid them, you are worthless outside of extortion potential.
If you aid us, you will be treated with respect.

Colin H. Breen, of the Molly Republic

[Ryummel]

I am sure you can continue hating Corsairs even without non-RP-clan-system.

They were hating each other ever since vanilla anyway, amirite? Corsairs trying to take their piece of Dublin.

[SnakThree]

I am sure you can continue hating Corsairs even without non-RP-clan-system.

They were hating each other ever since vanilla anyway, amirite? Corsairs trying to take their piece of Dublin and Cambridge.

Apparently not. Current Mollys want to clutch on non-cannon lore found within Londonderry infocards.

And I might not know as much about Mollys, but I have open-mind when it comes to roleplay. Going by set-in-stone motion about lore keeps us in place. Discovery should move forward. Clan/Guard systems were a mistake and now they are being corrected to lower the empty areas and condense activity to promote more encounters. That's good step towards encouraging RP on multiplayer server.

---

[Blodwyn O'Driscoll]

I am sure you can continue hating Corsairs even without non-RP-clan-system.

They were hating each other ever since vanilla anyway, amirite? Corsairs trying to take their piece of Dublin and Cambridge.

Apparently not. Current Mollys want to clutch on non-cannon lore found within Londonderry infocards.

And I might not know as much about Mollys, but I have open-mind when it comes to roleplay. Going by set-in-stone motion about lore keeps us in place. Discovery should move forward. Clan/Guard systems were a mistake and now they are being corrected to lower the empty areas and condense activity to promote more encounters. That's good step towards encouraging RP on multiplayer server.

Condense activity, that's all what is it about ?
So let's just concentrate the whole shrinking player base in one system... what about conn ? it will be surely be a good step towards encouraging rp.


So let's be serious one moment will we ?

This is not about hating corsairs, Cork is about that aspect.
What Londonderry is about is the Molly being forced to commit forces to fight them in the omegas., other wise, they 'll be blasted a second time.

Now if Derry doesn't exist, the Molly don't have to protect it, nor they'd have to commit forces in the omegas fighting a far more powerfull, numerous and older entity that is the corsair empire.
Would would they do that in the first place ? Dublin is well enough defended, they could just rush toward the Bretonians assets in Dublin.
-> example on how it affect the strategy of the Molly.

Also, would they need allies to fight the corsairs in the omegas... would they ally with the coalition or the hessians ?
If the corsairs are not a real threat they cannot handle, i'm pretty sure the far rheinlanders would be ignored, as they wouldn't probably help the Mollys against the Bretonian crown.
Would they bear allying with a communist dicatatorship, that had preyed upon them before if the corsair threat wouldn't exist ? I doubt so...
And that is what Derry is diplomatically.
-> that's an example of how it affect the molly diplomacy.


Shall i go on, on how placing some of the assets that are in Derry elsewhere could also affect some of the faction aspect drastically ?



Now, it is not like we wern't open to system modications, like it happened in O-74 or other de-guarded systems. In the contrary !
But this is probably the worse thing that could happen to the faction.

---

That is the crux of the matter.
If you aid us, and you aid them, you are the enemy.
If you do not aid them, you are worthless outside of extortion potential.
If you aid us, you will be treated with respect.

Colin H. Breen, of the Molly Republic

[nOmnomnOm]

Wait... Oorp systems mean they were paid for and that is it?
Umm...i do not understand how a system can be oorp but sure whatever floats your boat I guess.

---

[Neptune]

Excess systems removed by 4.88 Final:
- Humboldt (assets primarily going to Kansas)
- Minnesota (assets primarily going to Virginia)

What will happen to Humboldt's Tefe (Copper ore) & Careiro (Silver ore) asteroid fields? Also going to Kansas? I can only assume that these fields were put in Humboldt in the first place mainly for unlawfuls (?).

Just a suggestion: Why not keep Minnesota, re-purpose/redesign the system and incorporate these asteroid fields, or at least one of them, there so that both lawfuls and unlawfuls can benefit from the mining fields?

I was just thinking of Minnesota as an example, since it is not so far out of the way to render mining there useless (as it currently kinda is in Humboldt) and it's not so close to everything as to ruin "balance", though copper's sellpoint could be an issue, but I suppose that's a separate discussion altogether.

[Stoner_Steve]

Going back to the Omicron 74 bit

Given how hostile Kappa is already I do not think it is a good idea to move things into that system, first inRP why would anyone build there in the first place, the whole system is supposed to be deadly to Humans

---

SLRC Faction Document | SLRC Recruitment | SLRC Feedback | SLRC Message Dump

[Sabru]

If Londonderry goes then other similar clan systems need to go, IE Puerto Rico, O-74, etc.

im going to have to agree with Alley. If Derry, with a ton of faction-supporting RP done in and around it, is put to the proverbial torch then every other guard faction system like puerto rico should also be scrapped.

If places like Rho, O-85 and PR can be adjusted, de-guarded and kept then i dont see why Derry would need to be nuked completely.

---

On O-74, i agree. Kappa doesnt make much sense, unless Kappa's getting a big modification so that everything fits properly

---

[Lythrilux]

...Actually Rho was technically never a guard system (nerd). Omega-56 was though, before the Bounty Hunter Guard became the BHG Core and so the IFF turned into a proper faction IFF.

A big modification on making everything fit properly into Kappa could prove damaging to AI lore and create inconsistencies. The only way I could see it working is if over the course of the next few updates we de-power the AI so much that they're put into a state where they're not even a threat to Zoners. My gripe is that AI protocol is to kill anything that enters Kappa - the AI home system - and I feel that Zoners would never of been able to have had a foothold in which they'd be able to create installations admist this (system changes on a scale like this can be considered retconns and rewrites when no guard IFFs are present. I checked myself and the only base in O-74 with a guard IFF is Livadia Shipyard, the rest are normal Zoner IFFs). And lets also not forget that Kappa supposedly has a significant Nomad presence, which initially eleminated the Zoners from the system in the first place.

I think one way to make this make sense would be an entire retelling of the AI story (which after numerous lengthy and stressful rewrites, including losing and regaining officialdom in the process, I really doubt PRIME would be happy with). I could imagine it like this:
• Nomad presence in Kappa is retconned to be reduced significantly. Maybe even barely present.
• The Zoner settlers of Gammu, after noticing the radiation actually flee the planet sucessfully rather than being shot to pieces by the Nomads whilst they try to escape like in the original story. They leave the robots/AI etc. on Gammu.
• The Zoner settlers construct the bases that were originally in O-74 in Kappa instead.
• Centuries upon centuries later, the AI left on Gammu have developed self-awareness and leave their icy world to explore the stars.
• They meet the Zoners who had fled the planet initially, animosity develops for some reason (kill all beings of flesh?) and the AI begin an extermination campaign. Maybe the Zoners try to step back onto Gammu/Primus again, and the AI react violently Corsair-style?
• Zoners cry to other local factions for help etc as they're really pushed hard to survive against the AI onslaught...

...And then we'd arrive at this 'new' modern layout that's planned for a future release. As you can see it's really not a simple case of dragging and dropping bases into Kappa. And the Zoner factions and PRIME would also have to collaborate on writing this new lore etc. etc. and it just becomes another hassle.

Like I said that's a lot of stuff that'd essentially need to be retconned. My big worry here is that Kappa/PRIME might get shafted the same way Core has been with Rho: the system gets re-designed, there's a lot of inconsistencies that have been added that don't match up with the lore of the system and the faction within, the design itself isn't developed with the faction in mind either, and they get told to get stuffed by the system designer and don't get the oppertunity for any changes. In Core's case, this is getting fixed as indicated by Teerin's post, but I'd be good to avoid having PRIME to go through that same hassle all over again. It also saves the developers time as stuff won't need to be re-done.

---

[Teerin]

Preface: Guard systems were initially (for the most part) bought by official factions and they were given leeway to develop them on their own. This led to many of them being powergamey on a number of levels, as there was little supervision. Factions worked it into their own player group roleplay, even though yes, they were previously considered ooRP locations. Their sudden appearance as places within lore, without first fixing them, was a big oversight by predecessors of mine.

This is the reason for the removal and repurposing of many of them. We're looking to make the whole Sirius Sector a more fluently connected place with purposes for as many systems as we can, while cutting others as a means to help consolidate activity. Not all guard or excess systems could be salvaged into something viable, nor could all be retconned away. We looked for many things here, such as (but not limited to) NPC faction roleplay, regional lore, global lore, regional economy, global economy, and gameplay. Gameplay itself broke down into three key aspects: transit, destination, and encounter. There are a multitude of other guidelines that we follow as well.

Anyway, we also tried to treat guard (and excess) systems across Sirius as equally as we could, but situations for different regions vary quite a lot. Merging two systems may work for X and Y, but not Z. Introducing new assets and elements to A might liven it up, but not for B. Maybe C could be easy to delete, but D has too many bases or provides key jump links to an area. Things like that.

Also, let me clear it up that I'm not the only one to contribute to the 4.88 change plans. @Echo 7-7, @Durandal, @Blodo, @LunaticOnTheGrass, and @jammi have all worked together with me on these, and we've consulted as many faction leaders as possible, where relevant. In some cases, the other devs out voted me in discussions, or back before I was in charge, made executive decisions about a few things, and I'm not the vindicitive sort to backstab their plans the moment they leave.

End preface. Begin the quote war ...

And may I ask why Omicron - 100 is risking the coping. Lock? Currently it is one of two fully controlled systems by the Order, and one of our final fallback points. Any particular reason it is risking removal?

It's staying in for now because removing it could harm the economy by shortening a specific route, plus it has four Order bases that would need a home. As with many other guard systems, the faction got too tied to the roleplay and infocards written for that system. For now, it will likely remain, but if a problem arises with it then we are open to any solution, including removal if necessary.

We told you it was a bad idea, and you're still doing it . ANd when i see the number of deguarded systems that are being kept, it just makes me sick.

Now if Derry doesn't exist, the Molly don't have to protect it, nor they'd have to commit forces in the omegas fighting a far more powerfull, numerous and older entity that is the corsair empire.

I honestly tried my very best to think of ways to keep it, and pushed the other story/system planning developers to do the same, but I was alone in that regard. Several lore contradictions were also pointed out to me, and have since convinced me that this is the proper path to take here.

Also, unlike many factions, the Mollys will actually be able to keep all of their bases from 'Derry, plus a toned down Cork. These will be placed in locations that fit the region better, and may in fact keep alive the reasons for the Omega conflict. You don't even have to be that creative to come up with ideas for that.

Chester is a really cool system. Tell us again why you are moving it to a generic looking system like Inverness?

Otherwise, yeah why do we have to get rid of Chester? Why does it have to be fused with Inverness? I'd struggle to imagine both systems fusing or having their layouts changed, as they both look so nice the way they currently are Sad

Both Chester and Inverness were systems with half a purpose. With Chester's content moving to Inverness (perhaps think of it more as a merge?), the result becomes much more viable. As we work on the Bretonia update (not yet), we will consider putting some of the coolness from Chester into its new home. Also, expect events between the Hive and Battleship Atum.

Also I thought Zeta was being deleted, so it's being turned into an entirely new system instead? What sort of links will it have? Any further details?

As mentioned, it will connect a Sigma to an Omicron. Much like Ellesmere, it won't be the Zeta you know, rather a different system with a different concept. I haven't named it because there's a working name, but it's likely that it will be changed, so I'm preventing confusion.

As Puerto Rico, o-74, and so on ?

And isn't O-74 like, the one system Zoners have, period?

Also @ removing 74 and placing it's assets into Kappa instead.:

Does that necessarily make sense? Wouldn't that create immense problems for the Zoners due to unrelenting attacks from the Kappa AI, making maintaining bases in that system unwise?

why would anyone build there in the first place, the whole system is supposed to be deadly to Humans

Omicron-74 is being partially merged with Kappa. There will be Zoner, Corsair, and Gammu AI elements within. Each faction's bases will be fairly isolated from the others so as to prevent any immediate dangers, however non-allied interaction is generally good as a whole. The assumed deadliness of the system can be toned down a smidgen to make human outposts feasible, but given what the Omicrons are, that's a given.

As such, it will be a more integrated system with many of the aforementioned properties that we look for. This combines a guard system with what some still consider an "easter egg" system, making neither what they were. Much like other systems with multiple names inRP, Kappa and 74 can be considered synonyms. The Zoners will still have Omega-49, Omicron Theta, and Baffin as their "home" systems.

Puerto Rico is changing, and may change more later as needed. Unlike Londonderry, it will be able to sit in a place with viable, non-redundant connections and get to incorporate additional IFFs inside. The infocards will be adjusted (as we get to them) to fit the mod lore, as necessary.

What will happen to Humboldt's Tefe (Copper ore) & Careiro (Silver ore) asteroid fields? Also going to Kansas? I can only assume that these fields were put in Humboldt in the first place mainly for unlawfuls (?).

@LordVipex, the current mining developer, has been instructed to move one of those fields into Kansas and the other to a reworked Vespucci, when the time comes. They will still be readily accessible to unlawfuls.

---

I tried to answer all your questions openly. If I missed something, let me know. Some comments (bringing back the monkeys on Primus, for example) were ignored for obvious reasons. Blodwyn, you have my Skype, and I think @Stuffz already mentioned that he'd try to have another chat with you. We'll discuss this more, as we had tried previously.

With luck this clears some things up. I'm open for more discussion, and will reply as time permits.

PS: If this discussion continues, I'll probably split this into a new thread just so that it's easier to track everything properly