Admin Decision on the Banned Six

[Tarator]

Of course having chat records from skype as a reference in determining the offender's general behavior is something else, that would be all logical. But banning people over breaking Discovery's rules on skype is invalid in my view.

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[Venkman]

But banning people over breaking Discovery's rules on skype is invalid in my view.

And should never be a thing, 'cause it is wrong.

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User was banned for: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...tid=206147
https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...tid=206210
Time left: (Permanent)

[Epo]

Of course having chat records from skype as a reference in determining the offender's general behavior is something else, that would be all logical. But banning people over breaking Discovery's rules on skype is invalid in my view.

^ I'd fully agree with this.

[Burning]

@Skype Evidence now used:

The problem is that no one ever explained that all of a sudden Skype is now a reason to be prosecuted.

Also material there is not only used as backup evidence, but it seems very much as if Karst's ban was almost entirely built on a Skype controversy that went very bad, at a time when no one expected that Skype evidence would count at all.

I am not against using Skype in sanctions because it will result in conversations hopefully becoming more respectful, less trolly and more constructive in general. There are definitely potential benefits there, however: We need to know this! We need to know this before Skype evidence is used in sanctions!

To make it fair - at least for coming generations - put it into the rules! Warn people!
For 6 years, Skype evidence was not permitted, was never taken into account. Even DSAce was not permitted. Only on server unedited screenies and forum links/screenies.

Now, all of a sudden without any announcement, Skype is not only a valid source of evidence, but can be the main source to go for the highest punishment without much else in the sense of "traditional" evidence.

Such massive policy changes need to be announced.
Again, I am not against it, I actually welcome it, but players need to know so they can adjust their behaviour accordingly.
Skype used to be hate-filled, rough-talk, trolling to the max, teasing, bullying... forever.
And it never counted.

The staff needs to understand that punishing people on that basis is a massive (surprising) change.
A change that players need to adjust to, and they can only do so when they know about the change.

Jack

Although I agree with your point that stuff like this has to be announced, players who hated, trolled and bullied other players over Skype aren't people I want to be part of this community. If one does aforementioned stuff over Skype, I fully understand the admins' decision. He should've changed his behavior on his own before he got banned.

[Divine]

Skype ever since was used as evidence. Nothing changed here really.
The only real change that this brought up, which by the way is already a thing since a few years just nobody either ever cared or wanted to care, that it's now openly said that it's used as basis.

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User was banned for: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=151485
Time left: (Permanent)

[Syrus]

In regards to evidence I want to make clear that obviously it would be unhelpful to post the direct evidence of someone swearing or threatening someone (iRL), but a reason of "harmful to the community" is just a bit vague. A detailed as possible explanation should be given, especially when it comes to such severe sanctions.

Besides I would like to underline again, that Skype evidence has previously been rejected in many cases brought forward, as being "not part of Disco, therefore not sanctionable". I see the decision to apply Disco's rules also to chats outside the forum and game as an understandable, but also controversial one. Can someone be sanctioned for talking "bad" about someone else in a public skype chat, with the person not being around, or is it limited to direct "insults"/threats/etc? - It opens quite a wide margin for sanctionable offenses.


Also, I can write in white, too.

[Garrett Jax]

The old admin guidelines regarding Skype involvement as evidence, which was in force before I became Admin, stated that Skype conversations could be used if that format was utilized as a continuance of a forum/server violation. For example, someone might disagree with a sanction of a friend, post repeatedly in the sanction thread despite warnings and then once temp banned, carry on with highly abusive chat at an admin about it. In cases such as these, Skype and or PMs have been used to enforce punishments up to a full server ban. I'm not saying this was the case with Lyth or Karst. I don't know. It's just that there is long time precedent for banning players, in part, due to skype conversations.

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[Thyrzul]

Skype ever since was used as evidence. Nothing changed here really.
The only real change that this brought up, which by the way is already a thing since a few years just nobody either ever cared or wanted to care, that it's now openly said that it's used as basis.

In my five years of stay here I can recall only your ban being based on misconduct over Skype, quite malicious and offensive behavior if I recall correctly, and according to Garret, it was an unanimous vote to remove you. Besides that I only saw comments indicating the Staff does not consider evidence collected over Skype as a solid basis for sanctions, and while your case made me question the honesty behind such comments, I haven't seen anyone else getting sanctioned for Skype misconduct since your removal either.

Unless you have evidence of prosecution mainly based on Skype evidence beside the case of The Six as well as your own, by the flow of recent events I'm led to believe the opposite of your statements, and that there was indeed a change in Staff conduct without prior warning.

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[Alley]

@Skype stuff, can't be bothered to write it properly
[18:52:46] alley: some people believe because skype has been taken into account for a single instance that wasn't even processed under the ruleset that every bit of skype stuff is now ground for evidence
[18:53:10] alley: if you think about it for 10 seconds you easily realize it's not

It was an exceptional processing, don't expect skype to be the new meta.

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Alley was right.

[Thyrzul]

Well, I guess it's just natural that once a precedence is set, people will expect similar things to happen in the future, after all what do we really have as a reason to think otherwise?

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