(08-20-2016, 04:52 PM)Vendetta Wrote: Except the announcement isn't pertaining to their bans, nor were their bans even really noted to include shadowlogging.
The Kitty Wrote:It has became apparent that this approach is doomed as there are certain mindsets that are never happy and feel it is fine to deride and bully whoever they dislike.
Dimon Wrote:The Server is open for everyone and we welcome you to play and enjoy the little world here. But If you are here to harass and break the game of other players, then we'll that act that strict toward you.
King Boo Wrote:You're here to have fun. Yes. But you have to be considerate to the people around you too. Ruining someones day in order to have a spurt of your own personal amusement is completely unacceptable.
Not to "shadowlogging" directly, but to the spirit behind shadowlogging, to the spirit behind giving players no chance of being anywhere (undocked) on the server if they attracted to ire of the wrong ganksquad, and to the spirit that is being echoed by the people who are trying to counter the idea. If I may quote again:
Traxit Wrote:Don't like that? Don't undock.
Now stop whining.
(08-20-2016, 04:52 PM)Vendetta Wrote: Why give further explanation on a statement that's as clear as day?
Because Durandal isn't the only one playing the game, nor is the omniscient, flawless, unbiased, irreplaceable, or omnipotent developer that some may want to have people believe.
(08-20-2016, 04:52 PM)Vendetta Wrote: Dividing a community kills a community. Common sense.
Giving people a chance to exist in a minuscule amount of space without being reachable by ganksquads isn't dividing the community. The only thing it does is make admin-tolerated (be it out of unawareness, unwillingness or inability to do anything about it, or being part of or supporters of said squads) a little less omnipotent when it comes to deciding who gets to play here or not, in a minuscule amount of space.
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(08-20-2016, 05:55 PM)Magnifique Wrote: Because Durandal isn't the only one playing the game, nor is the omniscient, flawless, unbiased, irreplaceable, or omnipotent developer that some may want to have people believe.
Oh funny. You seem to be under the impression that I agree with half of the crap Durandal does blindly. Too bad he's recently blocked and removed me (again) on Skype for calling him out on stuff during the dev strike. Irregardless, his statement has quite a lot of merit to it, as if you split the community up, both parties will inevitably lose interest when the level of interaction drops.
(08-20-2016, 05:55 PM)Magnifique Wrote: Giving people a chance to exist in a minuscule amount of space without being reachable by ganksquads isn't dividing the community. The only thing it does is make admin-tolerated (be it out of unawareness, unwillingness or inability to do anything about it, or being part of or supporters of said squads) a little less omnipotent when it comes to deciding who gets to play here or not, in a minuscule amount of space.
Again, splitting up the community lessens the number of interactions. PvP is a part of the game. RP is a part of the community. The two feed off each other to exist. There isn't some omnipotent council of players who gets to decide who stays and who goes. There's an extremely, extremely small minority of players who spend their time actively searching for loopholes in the rules to get away with harassing another section of players for their own enjoyment. They're such a tiny minority, that with enough evidence and backing, it'd be easy to have them removed from the Community.
Who are they? I don't know. I don't care, either. It's poor behavior, and shadowlogging isn't as broad of a term as people might like to think. It's a very specific term, and it's not that hard to tell the difference between logging for interactions and logging to harm others. If the problem is removed, then there's no problem anymore. It's gone. There should be an official green statement about punishment involving shadowlogging, holy wars, whatever else people like to call it. Doesn't matter. Just don't do it.
Currently unable to consistently be present in the Community due to life constraints.
(08-20-2016, 05:55 PM)Magnifique Wrote: Because Durandal isn't the only one playing the game, nor is the omniscient, flawless, unbiased, irreplaceable, or omnipotent developer that some may want to have people believe.
Oh funny. You seem to be under the impression that I agree with half of the crap Durandal does blindly. Too bad he's recently blocked and removed me (again) on Skype for calling him out on stuff during the dev strike. Irregardless, his statement has quite a lot of merit to it, as if you split the community up, both parties will inevitably lose interest when the level of interaction drops.
You used a one liner from him (which contained 0 justification or elaboration of any kind) as the ultimate "clear as day" judgment on how its gonna be. Whether you only do that when it suits you but don't do it when it doesn't suit you is irrelevant for the right or wrong of the matter at hand, as is the other stuff you mention about blocked Skype and whatnot, as is any impression I may or may not have of you.
(08-20-2016, 08:00 PM)Vendetta Wrote:
(08-20-2016, 05:55 PM)Magnifique Wrote: Giving people a chance to exist in a minuscule amount of space without being reachable by ganksquads isn't dividing the community. The only thing it does is make admin-tolerated (be it out of unawareness, unwillingness or inability to do anything about it, or being part of or supporters of said squads) a little less omnipotent when it comes to deciding who gets to play here or not, in a minuscule amount of space.
Again, splitting up the community lessens the number of interactions. PvP is a part of the game. RP is a part of the community. The two feed off each other to exist.
You know I could just quote myself again to counter your "counter argument" which really isn't one (you're just repeating stuff you said ignoring that it's already been addressed), but let me help you to understand a little more.
Making a few small zones (where people can't make credits, nor buy all ships they may want, nor kill other people) which should be safe IRP, where people are not destroyable by gank-squads who want to kill them IS NOT SPLITTING THE COMMUNITY. It's an enrichment available for everyone, which people can take or leave as they please. The ONLY people harmed by this are people who want to completely remove people from being online on the server, and people who are willing to throw RP realism and other's ability to enjoy the game overboard for the sake of getting some blues. Your trying to portrait this as "splitting the community" or "killing activity" is like saying "shut down the RP section of the forum, people should RP on the server where people can shoot them, you're killing server activity and splitting the community!", except that having RP safe zones on the server actually really permits people to RP on the server more.
(08-20-2016, 05:55 PM)Magnifique Wrote: There isn't some omnipotent council of players who gets to decide who stays and who goes. There's an extremely, extremely small minority of players who spend their time actively searching for loopholes in the rules to get away with harassing another section of players for their own enjoyment. They're such a tiny minority, that with enough evidence and backing, it'd be easy to have them removed from the Community.
Who are they? I don't know. I don't care, either. It's poor behavior, and shadowlogging isn't as broad of a term as people might like to think. It's a very specific term, and it's not that hard to tell the difference between logging for interactions and logging to harm others. If the problem is removed, then there's no problem anymore. It's gone. There should be an official green statement about punishment involving shadowlogging, holy wars, whatever else people like to call it. Doesn't matter. Just don't do it.
Well, I'm no psychic, and I don't know exactly everyone who "does it", "did it" or who "will do it". What I do know, however, is that bullying people off the server (or trying to bully them into behaving how you want them to behave) has been an accepted tactic by many "important" people for much of discovery's existence. There are people who see it (or saw it, since I'm no psychic) as a legitimate strategy, who see people who aren't organized and adjustable enough to resist it as inferiors/undesirables/playthingvictims, who see (or saw) it as a healthy social engineering tactic for the server. They may have been a minority in the server population, but some of them were admins, faction leaders, and devs (some still are, or became that after expressing such views, but since I'm no psychic, I don't know what they think now). And the truth is, even if I personally consider it sad, that it worked just fine for them for a long while, because discovery had more of an over-population problem than an under-population one, due to it being the only highly active server that everyone herded to. The thing is, we're now past the point where it's necessary to raise the population again, something that wasn't a problem in the times of the "good old days" for some. So there will need to be changes, which is something I think some of the "important" people have started to understand, although some haven't, hence the recent disarray between the "important" people.
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(08-21-2016, 02:09 AM)Shryke Wrote: I don't understand why it's so hard for you to understand that PvP is an integral part of RP.
I don't understand why it's so hard for you to understand that I do understand that, and that this has absolutely nothing to do with it. I do have a hunch though. (you're just pretending you don't)
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In anticipation of the next "you must not understand cause I don't understand" one-liner post which may just be taking 10+ minutes in the making, here's a spoiler:
Buffing a defense system to a realistic not-conquerable-by-enemy-factions-who-shouldn't-realistically-be-able-to-conquer-it-level level in some locations isn't equivalent to removing a part of RP entirely in those locations, nor on the rest of server.
It just prevents ganksquad-power-gaming, bullying, and messing up other people's experience and lowering server population for no other benefit than blue messages for people who don't care for either of those.
You're perfectly free to RP your way through those defenses, just like you're free to RP your way through any other NPC gun.
Get it?
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(08-21-2016, 02:56 AM)Shryke Wrote: No I get it, I just think it's a ridiculously stupid idea.
And I had a few more words in that post to express how ridiculously stupid your posts were, but chose to hold back for the sake of not hurting your feelings too much.
And your posts suggested that you didn't get it.
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