Depending on the mood of the Golden Chrysanthemums, you might get a variety of "requests":
"Konnichiwa trader. Would it please you to contribute some financial aid to our cause? We would be most grateful. 2 million should suffice, good sir."
"Konnichiwa trader. We would like to impress upon you the urgency of imparting some of your wealth, say 3 mil, to our cause. It could save your life in the quite near future."
"Konnichiwa, gaijin scum. Cut your engines and prepare to be boarded. We're not going to be very nice about this, but you don't have a choice, as we're the ones pointing the guns. Hand over 50% of your cargo or we'll space you and take everything. Accede to our demand and you might just escape out of this alive."
Just a few samples of our demands that we use. Typically we don't pirate unless in groups of at least 2, usually 3.
"can you give me a little donation" actually does NOT meet what is needed to blow a trader up.
"can you give me a little donation - lets say... 500k" does cut it finally.
you must present the trader with a value to buy himself out of it. - so while the first request is fine for a polite introduction. - the pirate must not blow the trader up if the trader says "no". - cause there was no exact demand made so far. - the pirate must ask for something specific - like:
- x units of your cargo, half your cargo, all your cargo
- x cash
- ( or ... and thats up to discussion ) abandon this route maybe or turn around and leave ( for example passengers heading to crete )
just saying "give me a donation" is too vague to be a real demand in any way - ( cause - when you think about it... he could offer you 1 credit ... since your demand wasn t exact. when you THEN decline it cause its not enough, the trader would have met all required rules to be "free to go" - while the pirate had NO right to attack the trader whatsoever )
' Wrote:When a pirate stops someone and says: "Would you like to donate to my cause?" or "Please donate to my cause."
Does that give him the right to open fire if the trader says no? I don't see these words as a form of demand, and it shouldn't give a pirate the right to open fire. In short its nothing more than firing on someone after saying halt.
Yet another example of traders trying to loophole the rules. This is a ROLE play server ... not a RULE play server. Asking for a donation means the pirate expects the trader to give him something ... even if its 1 credit or 1 item of cargo. If you give nothing ... you get the guns.
Yet another example of poor role play among the traders. You guys just REFUSE to play the role of a trader being pirated. You'd rather make up stuff that doesn't exist to avoid getting pirated.
' Wrote:It doesn't. He must call the exact price before getting right to blow up his poor ship. End of story.
Nothing in the rules says you have to define the amount of cargo or money you have to demand.
Here's the rule as written:
Quote:6.19 Pirates and terrorists have a right to deal as much damage as they see fit before or after demanding money from a trader ship, but killing trader ship before demanding money or cargo is not allowed. Attacking traders or demanding cargo is not allowed for cruisers and battleships, unless cruisers and battleship belong to Terrorist ID or Phantom ID owner.
Please ParanoidAndroid ... please point to where it says you must make a demand for a specific amount of anything.
i gave you the example, baltar. - if you ask for a non specific amount, the victim can give you a "non specific" amount with which you MUST be happy with.
its a deal - a trader fulfils your request ( which is unspecificly "a donation" ) and for that the pirate lets the trader go. - if the pirate blows up a trader that fulfilled the pirates request, it would be a violation of the rules.
-- you cannot tax a trader for 3 million - AND kill him afterwards.
so you cannot ask for "a donation" receive "a donation" ( which could aswell be a nice word for all that matters or the trader wishing you "a lucky day and that he will pray for your fortune" - which certainly counts as a donation, too ) and then say "no no, i meant you must donate MORE or you die" - thats not the way things work.
[i know that example sucks - but who can tell what the other person considers "a donation" - praying for one can aswell be a donation as giving you 100million credits]
so, if you ask for a non specific amount of tax, you must live with "a non specific amount". - the joke is on the pirate then.
The only definitive rule on this is "You must make a demand, or you may not kill the trader."
IMO if you say, stop, pay a donation, and he stops and opens the trade window, you should then specify a set amount.
@Jinx,
I don't agree with what you've said.
I can tax a trader, say 2 million. He pays, and then he goes and says "filthy corsairs", I'm not going to just let him go now am I?
Likewise, if I tax a trader only 1 million, he pays, is about to leave, then I get some information from a buddy that the trader's a known passenger smuggler, has attacked OPG before, etc. I'm fully in my rights to go, hey you stop, looks like I didn't tax you quite enough.
You do not pay tax because it somehow buys you a magical safe passage, you pay it because if you don't, you die.
Simple as that.
It makes perfect RP sense, and there is no rule against how often you can tax a trader.
@ Baltar: Make your point without b*tching about traders. Or shut up
@ Mule: I agree with what you said, but doing these will 99% of the time get your sanctioned. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying its the rules. Like motorcycle helmet laws. If you don't want to wear a brain-bucket, and die because of it, go for it. But don't b*tch if you get pulled over for not obeying the law.
@ OPG Ivan: I've met you many times in my trader, always well done. If you do run into a situation like that, and you've made the demand for said trader to stop and he doesn't...did you not just make a demand? Why does it have to be for money? or cargo. "Hey you, trader, say something nice about the Benitez' new Titan there". That's technically a demand isn't it?
Maybe I'm wrong here, but being on the receiving end of many a pirate, I've seen good and bad ones. I've run into Ze'ev asking donations, the GC in a cranky mood, and the TBH trying to protect the homefront. And I've run into those "2milordie" people...to which I reply "Catch me first, ye scurvy dog" and accept the consequences.
To the originator of this post. I believe a bit more RP would be needed than "no". Perhaps discuss the merits of said cause, or drop 1 unit of cargo. Either way, the pirate has made a demand...however worded, and you should have a responsibility to interact a bit with them.
' Wrote:Yet another example of traders trying to loophole the rules. This is a ROLE play server ... not a RULE play server. Asking for a donation means the pirate expects the trader to give him something ... even if its 1 credit or 1 item of cargo. If you give nothing ... you get the guns.
Yet another example of poor role play among the traders. You guys just REFUSE to play the role of a trader being pirated. You'd rather make up stuff that doesn't exist to avoid getting pirated.
Nothing in the rules says you have to define the amount of cargo or money you have to demand.
Here's the rule as written:
Please ParanoidAndroid ... please point to where it says you must make a demand for a specific amount of anything.
----------------------------------
Can we stop this nonsense now?
It was a simple thought for discussion no need for such rude comments.
The Bundschuh prided themselves on not demanding anything, simply asking for donations. If the trader said no, depending on the goods he was carrying and the Bundschuh, he would be let go freely. (Goods like Diamonds etc on the run might end up getting you a nasty repair bill, usually not death though)
The non-specific demands actually worked very well. It gave us an indication of the sort of characters we were dealing with, and perhaps our respect or fear on the server. After all, a rich man offering 1 million is not the same as a poor man offering the same.
It is the offer that is of importance. To be brutally honest, we didn't just do it for the money since trading actually makes far more in the time period, but some find it far too boring.
However I do think that when you start to limit people to Demanding donations, then it removes a lot of roleplay.
Definition of donation:
1. The act of giving to a fund or cause.
2. A gift or grant.
This allows for forceful donations. Plain and simple they are often not-so subtlely hidden demands BUT they are not technically demands, and so any attack by a pirate due to it is illegal.
I personally do not like such wide spread abuse of the word 'Donation' but it is used often in threats. Do think that you shouldn't go strictly by the rules in this case since it would limit roleplay somewhat.
Jinx: Um ... I don't have to be happy. And if the trader insults me with 1 credit ... I may accept it but that trader will be hit multiple times ... at which point I'll make a specific demand. BUT ... I'd appreciate you avoiding micro-interpretation of the rules. BTW ... take a look at Rule # 3.5 quoted below. And take note of what's underlined. My POINT is that there is no rule saying you must make a demand for a SPECIFIC amount. While it is true it will be a joke on the pirate to receive 1 credit ... the trader will be hit much harder and more often with that type of disrespect.
Quote:3.5 Attempts to pose as admins, threatening players with sanctions, attempts to interpret rules are not allowed. Applying to admin's name without prior consent of the admin is not allowed.
Mule: Thank you ... and this brings up a valid point. If the trader insults the pirate ... he gets hit harder and more often.
cmfalconer: Um ... have you taken a look at the title of this thread. These threads have a habit of flaming (vice the word you chose) at pirates. So take your own advice sir.
ParanoidAndroid: If I ask for a "donation" ... I accept whatever is given ... even if its 1 credit or 1 unit of food. BTW ... I ONLY ask for "donations" from traders that have a history of good role play. So ... build a good rep with Black Pearl and he'll be lenient. But if you cross him ... expect to pay ... and pay often. But you can bet 100% of your cargo that non-role playing traders will not get my "non-specific" demands. Nor will the new traders I come in contact with. If I give you a "non-specific" request ... its because I have respect for you. So ... ball's in your court sir. You wanna non-specific request?
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