(12-22-2016, 07:04 PM)Divine Wrote: You can't restrict access to the guard-systems, which aren't there anymore for the OC because they had been de-guarded to be used in lore, to properly ID'd and IFF'd ships.
I don't know about that. Looks pretty Guard-ish to me. If that's not a guard system, why are those things Guard-ID'd?
Quote:You can't just bounty ships of your own NPC-ID without an FR issued first. The bounty on the 101st was put up days before the FR5 was executed, which is a rule-violation in itself.
Quote:Faction Right 6. Official player factions have the right to bounty or attack any player who is using their technology without the faction ID or permission from the official faction, regardless of their diplomacy toward the faction of the ship in question. In case of IDs with multiple official factions, gaining permission from one of the official factions would suffice, and once a technology is granted by one official faction, the other official factions should treat it as approved technology as well. In this case, factions are advised to keep a public record of their approved technologies for the purpose of better coordination with other official groups of their ID.
Quote:Faction Right 6. Official player factions have the right to bounty or attack any player who is using their technology without the faction ID (condition one)or (indication that only one condition must be met)permission from the official faction, (condition 2)regardless of their diplomacy toward the faction of the ship in question. (indication of an FR5 not even necessary)
Quote:Any FR2 usage is invalid as the method of getting said information, if any at all, violates other rules, namely the faction ones.
You're mixing up two things here. I'm talking about when NC actually can shjote you, this has nothing to do with the information you're questioning.
(12-22-2016, 07:04 PM)Divine Wrote: You can't restrict access to the guard-systems, which aren't there anymore for the OC because they had been de-guarded to be used in lore, to properly ID'd and IFF'd ships.
Phi is still a guard system but a FR5 cannot set you hostile to Guard IFF btw. (In 101st / MaEx cases because of the OC ID)
(12-22-2016, 07:26 PM)Werdackel| Wrote: Phi is still a guard system ...
This is weird indeed. Years ago with the CL/101st conflict, it was said by the Devs that to've o85 incorporated into OC-lore, it'd need to be de-guarded, which I, when the 101st again was the only official faction, had put in a request to've it de-guarded so it's further usable in dev-driven lore.
One of the yellow people would've to answer why this change wasn't done yet.
(12-22-2016, 07:25 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Nothing hinders 101st from going official and compete with NC to get their own stations, though.
So a faction that makes you red to your own stations once you put on the tag and furthermore you can not do anything a regular OC can, because you'd still not be allowed to have conflict (shjote) with NC? That's gonna be hard.
P.S. Also can you become official faction of a NPC faction that you are FR5 red to?
(12-22-2016, 07:25 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Nothing hinders 101st from going official and compete with NC to get their own stations, though.
So a faction that makes you red to your own stations once you put on the tag and furthermore you can not do anything a regular OC can, because you'd still not be allowed to have conflict (shjote) with NC? That's gonna be hard.
Roleplay offers so many possibilities, Vasko. Ask another faction inRP to support your cause and start conquering NC OC stations. Maybe you even get your own stations, independent from NC. Seriously, there is so much that can be done if people get their butts up to try and put effort into it.
Quote:P.S. Also can you become official faction of a NPC faction that you are FR5 red to?
As far as the OP goes, I believe cloaks ought to be able to be used for espionage. If someone RP's and communicates in local, they are on record and it should count, even if seen while another party is inrp invisible. It wouldn't be unreasonable though to limit espionage with faction ID's to their ZOI. Meaning its unlikely a Rheinland corp would go all the way to the Taus to spy on IMG, but they might in the omegas. That's what freelancers, Intel ID's or spec ops ID's are best for. Some pre-rp or at the very least some kind of record of an in game interaction leading to such 'contracted' espionage would be good, especially if you're going to initiate serious RP consequences against the witnessed parties, like an FR5. With the cloak sounds, the chat list, and cloak CD's...if you get caught by a spy at this point, in most cases, ZOI or not, people can over hear chatter, and it can certainly count!
As to the intra-factional FR5's...there have been conflicts among the Outcast factions in the past, full fledged civil war, it may seem cheap, but I do like the idea that such conflicts can arise even within a single group. Sometimes such freedom comes with a price.
(07-13-2016, 12:58 PM)The National Council Wrote: The National Council
07-13-2016, 01:58 PM, (This post was last modified: 12-16-2016, 04:16 PM by The National Council.)
(12-21-2016, 08:45 AM)sindroms Wrote: [101st] have been FR5ed to be hostile the the Outcasts.
Yesterday was the 21st, the bounty was put up on the 16th. That's 5 days ahead of any FR issued. And you can't just bounty your own ID without an FR issued first, as it's violating the rule 4.4 by using the bounty-board as a proxy.
(12-22-2016, 07:49 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Ask another faction inRP to support your cause and start conquering NC OC stations. Maybe you even get your own stations, independent from NC. Seriously, there is so much that can be done if people get their butts up to try and put effort into it.
Are you implying we can get a new NPC faction that is not Outcast and have some Outcast stations use that IFF instead? I mean that would be really cool indeed, but the way I see it most likely all OC bases will remain OC bases under the one and only OC NPC faction and thus what you inRP write on the forums will hold no value over the game world we play in.
EDIT: Because at the end of the day no matter how much 101st tries to pretend they've captured say Miguel Outpost - they will still be red to it and NC will be green.
Hm.
I think this FR5 against the whole faction is wrong.
Reasons:
> much too harsh punishment: FR5 to hostile to OC basically limits the faction's accessible bases to Freeports. An FR5 needs to be checked for gameplay ramifications. This one is a death penalty by the vehicle of "roleplay consequence". And even if no malicious intent like "let's kill off that faction!" is involved, a player-player interaction (even a non-dodgy, perfectly white one) should in my opinion never be enough to ruin a complete ID/faction.
> unfair collective punishment: Why FR5 the complete group when you can hit the one player that is responsible? The individual FR5 is a much better instrument, the "FR5 let's wreck their roleplay!" should be heavily restricted and checked for potential gamebreaking consequences for the faction threatened with it.
> Cloaked evidence: Even though the rules limit this for lawfuls only, the "message" of the rule has to be interpreted as: We do not want cloaked info gathering in order to harm others. A Kruger-IMG round of cloaked Kruger| spying shittery made that change come true. The message of the rule change is clear, and I do not see why it should not also be there to protect unlawful roleplay. Roleplay needs to be protected against bad, perhaps even malicious and disruptive ways that cause unusually harsh consequences. That was what Kruger tried, and the agreement was that it is not okay. I do not see how 101st case is any different when it comes to the "spirit" of the rules.
> A bounty before the FR5: That's a rule violation as the same ID cannot shoot the same ID. Even if you run it via a proxy, it is against the rules. It should be reported as part of the case against this sanction, as the criteria for a "civil war" have not been met. For information on this see the last few admin rulings/announcements that allowed for "you can shoot your own ID". > Suspicion of metagaming: Transferring ingame knowledge between your own characters to harm another group that you share an irp, but as I have heard also an oorp rivalry? Sounds fishy to me and speaks against an acceptance of the FR5 on a complete faction that ruins them effectively.
> Suspicion of powergaming: Taking a character into custody without the player agreeing is in my opinion powergaming. If it took place like it was described to me, it would be powergaming in my book.
I agree that roleplay can have consequences.
However, a roleplay encounter should never have the potential to wreck a faction.
Reality shows that this is totally unrealistic (look at international diplomacy that knows 1000s of nuances before a war is fought)
For the reasons I named, I think that an FR5 against the one ship (or all the ships of that player/character?) is okay. That would be acceptable consequences for valid roleplay.
But killing off a faction (whether you like 101st or not does not even matter here) by means of FR5 against its own ID should never be an option except for the worst (and I really mean the worst) cases like total lolwuts, etc In this case, so many aspects yell "fishy!" to me, that I am surprised that the FR5 against the complete faction actually went through. It makes me worry a little, and I will definitely draw the consequences and move all relevant sensitive chat into group or green message, roleplay the meetings 40 k off plane or move it to Skype completely. That's the logical consequence when faced with such damage for a roleplay screwup.
![[Image: GdpTkCT.png]](http://i.imgur.com/GdpTkCT.png)
![[Image: TBUxjM1.png]](http://i.imgur.com/TBUxjM1.png)
![[Image: JkEoBLU.png]](http://i.imgur.com/JkEoBLU.png)
![[Image: G38aJ6J.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/G38aJ6J.jpg)
