Are outcast cap ships now open to any ID?

[podcof]

i understand what you trying to say, but in this case your completely wrong.

An example; There is a popular video on television (can probably find it on youtube) that show a guy driving a M1A1 Abrams around LA. Now he was a American citizen and was as some point in the Army. Now by your logic just him being a citizen grants him the right to have that tank and do what he pleases with it.

But thats not how it works, the man was chased down my the police and actually killed after he wrecked the tank. Now that wasnt any kind of 'civil war' that was the government enforcing the law it set down in its territory.

That is exactly what the 101st is doing and have every to do so. just because you're a Maltese citizen (an outcast) doesn't grant you the right to pilot a destroyer, battleship or a dreadnought RP wise, whether you listen to 101st or not and buy one of those ships is up to you and completely within the rules (that is if you have the right tag and ID). but that will label you an traitor to the outcast people and yo will be attacked on sight by the 101st and any other outcast who want to teach the 'traitor' a lesson. youll basically be atttcked until you get rid of the ship, and believe me its not that hadr to take down a capship wit only a bomber or two.

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Alex.Vega[101st]

Omicron-85: KEEP OUT! |

[sovereign]

Excuse me, have you not paid attention or read the register thread?

Yeah, actually, I have. That's one way of showing that you RP, but not the only way. Actually, I prompted them to put their own stuff in it as a show of good faith, which they did.

Wrong. If they RP and meet the approval of the 101st they are fine, however if they choose to not have their rp approved by the 101st they are in a civil war, no matter how wll they RP.

Bull dung. Other Outcasts have said this is junk too, who are you to tell the 101st that the 101st thinks differently? Listen, if someone RPs as a captain of a capital ship (don't tell me there's any other way a capship could work) then they might get a nudge to go register on forums, but they WILL NOT BE ATTACKED. Various people have attested to this, and unless you have solid evidence to the contrary, you are simply wrong and just picking a fight where no fight needs to be picked.

All that is required rules wise is an outcast ID and tag. That is RPing an outcast and that makes owning a outcast cap ship perfectly legal.

By attacking perfectly legal outcasts the 101st has created a civil war.

"That is RPing and Outcast" no actually, if someone asks you if you have any cardamine to spare and you say "I hate cardamine" then YOU ARE NOT AN OUTCAST, just someone masquerading as one. This can get extended to anyone doing stuff suitably stupid, like, say, playing the human behind the screen as opposed to one of the people running the ship, which would indicate something is wrong from an RP standpoint, and thus prompt "explain yourself or be destroyed".

If you didn't think about it that way before, that's fine. It's okay to be wrong, just once you realize you're wrong don't keep harping on the same points...

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[Akumabito]

the warship limitation was brought up in a RP way, and if there should be a civil war, it should be done in RP aswell. there is no reason not to have one, but it must be RPed, not just PvPed.

The warship limitation is not really done in an RP way. The 101st is perfectly within their rights to dictate the RP of their members, but not to dictate the RP of other outcasts, including indies, that's oorp.

As much as I dislike some of the indies (like one in a zoner juggernaught, with zoner ID and police tag killing CG in Hokkaido), there is a way to deal with the oorp people through the rules and reporting, as well as the way that zoner got dealt with when the combined might of blood dragons and CG was turned his way.

What the 101st is doing is simply holding all indies responsible for a few bad ones, and that isn't the right way to do it on any level. I suspect the reason has more to do with a sense of power than with culling oorp people, because even if they got these people to give up their outcast ships, which is very, very, very doubtful, the same people will just fly something else and be the same people. At best the 101st is simply shoveling their problem into someone else's lap and even if they are successful we'll just see a huge amount of bounty hunter battlecrusers going "lol, i pown u".

If these players are a problem, fix them with your guns, screenie and report them, but don't start restricting everyone who isn't in your clan by dictating what their RP has to be outside of the rules. That's not the right way to do it.

I would also like to add that if the admins really think this is a problem and want to put posting requirements or stricter limits on ooc chat on cap ship ownership, that's fine with me, but unless and until that is done, I don't want some faction leader as a self proclaimed admin trying to impose their rules on me or anyone else.

[sovereign]

Akumabito, you really haven't been reading what we've been saying. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INDIES vs FACTIONS, and IF YOU RP A CAPSHIP YOU ARE FINE. If you don't, you get killed. Since the admins are often picky about what constitutes idiocy, the players are taking the initiative and helping out.

And they aren't dictating ANYONE's RP, you just have to have it. Even if they were, it WOULD be within their rights, they're the frikkin Outcast GUARD for crying out loud. If they don't watch over the Outcasts, who does?

You've convinced me that you don't actually care and just want to argue. Fine, argue away, I'm off.

The best way to deal with this kind of idiot is to not give them fuel. Please, no one else post here. Take it to PMs.

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[Jinx]

since there is an admin in the [RM] and they have totally locked out independent players from their capital ships ( the battleship to be precise ) - i guess they consider it within the server-rules to do so. ( that means, that the RP overwrites the rules, if one can say that there is indeed a rule saying that you can fly whatever you want as long as RP allows )

now, there is no such rule, - however there is nothing that says otherwise either...

anyway - from what i know about the outcast limitation. - it does not lock out anyone. - it just asks for a RP background that explains the hows and whys. ( in contrast to the RM limitation that disallows the ownership of said vessels without any compromise, no matter what RP you have )

of course that means that there is a lot of power/responsibility in the hands of players. - that means, evaluating the applications and justifying the decissions. - if its all done in a respectful way - those that are rejected must know why they are rejected in a formal and of course polite way - so they can, if they are willing ... change their RP so they won t get rejected anymore.

the basic thought behind that is - that there "should" be less warships out than fighters. that thought is a popular thought based on... well, nothing so much. - but still, its widely accepted. ( there are sci-fi settings where there are a lot more warships flying around than fighters - or no fighters at all .. like star trek for example )

i do not know why you have been rejected, but i think it would be decent to ask for the reasons and try to fix whatever problems there were. - if that contradicts your RP too much, - there is allways the way to contact a GM or igiss personally, i guess. - but the first step should be "communication". - communication with those that you have to interact with in order to get your approval.
on the other side - those that approve the requests must allways try to be completely unbiased and "in-role". so they must of course never reject someone cause they don t like the player - but they must decide what their character would do.

anyway - to be honest, i am of course quite happy that my chars are not affected by any official faction that restricts any shipuse. ( zoners / BHG / gaians ) ... and its rather unlikely that it happens in those factions anyway. - but i wish that such a RP limitation was rather a gain for RP and not detrimental to it.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Akumabito]

An example; There is a popular video on television (can probably find it on youtube) that show a guy driving a M1A1 Abrams around LA. Now he was a American citizen and was as some point in the Army. Now by your logic just him being a citizen grants him the right to have that tank and do what he pleases with it.

Completely wrong. First off it was an M60 tank, secondly he stoled it, he didn't buy it, thirdly I used to know a guy who owned a tank, he was a citizen, he drove it in parades and owned it legally.

If you're going to try to make a point, at least get the facts right from the start.

If you didn't think about it that way before, that's fine. It's okay to be wrong, just once you realize you're wrong don't keep harping on the same points...

If you RP a capship you are fine...

Sounds like you need to read your own advice and not make the same invalid points all over again while ignoring anything that shows you wrong.

Ir you RP a capship as an indie the way the 101st want's you to, you are fine, that's the point I make and the one you continually miss.

It's pretty sad that you have devolved into yelling and calling me an idiot because you don't like my point. Try to grow up and discuss like an adult, OK? Is that too much to ask or expect of you?





But then you wouldn't be you I guess.

[Akumabito]

since there is an admin in the [RM] and they have totally locked out independent players from their capital ships ( the battleship to be precise )

Well, I have seen at least one independent RH BS, but who wants a ship that can't fit in a tradelane anyway?

i do not know why you have been rejected, but i think it would be decent to ask for the reasons and try to fix whatever problems there were.

I haven't been rejected, I don't have any outcast PC's and doubt I will, unless this attempt to put indies under their thumb by the 101st convinces me to do so, it's not really like they could stop me.

I just don't see the point in letting a faction dictate the RP of an indie, it's bogus anyway, do you really think a few paragraphs on a forum and going to turn some I337 D93 into something else when he's flying his outcast BS? Do you really think blowing him up over and over oorp is going to make a better server.

Don't be lazy, if someone is talking crap in chat, screenie it and report them if it bothers you.

[sovereign]

Ir you RP a capship as an indie the way the 101st want's you to, you are fine, that's the point I make and the one you continually miss.

It's pretty sad that you have devolved into yelling and calling me an idiot because you don't like my point. Try to grow up and discuss like an adult, OK? Is that too much to ask or expect of you?
But then you wouldn't be you I guess.

Alright, I said I wouldn't post again, but I lied. Listen, if you RP a capship as an indie AT ALL then you are fine. Most people they are worried about are those who ignore you, say they hate cardamine, and stupid stuff that is quite obviously ooRP but the sanction reports don't go through. They, being the Outcast guard, have every right to make sure their charges, the Outcasts, are guarded from attackers without, and spies and loonies within.

I *am* reading what you write and it hasn't changed. You just ripped on the other guy for getting his facts wrong, but please get yours right first... they are NOT squelching indies. They are squelching idiots, and there is a VERY big difference.

And unnecessary insults don't help your case. Notice, I simply made an inference comparing the way you argue, to, say, some idiot who says "but it's wrong!" over and over again, without stopping and re-analyzing when he gets new information. You convinced me that you don't actually care for the point, I didn't decide my facts before getting into discussion. That's what you did, not me. Please, read more carefully and think. Really, there is nothing wrong with realizing you are wrong when you get further information. It happens to me too here and there, check the GMG faction request for an example. Yeah, I was probably wrong about the Bundschuh thing. And after being corrected I said "whoops, my bad, sorry about that" and everything was peachy. I could have made an entire page devoted to explaining why I was right, but I probably wasn't. So I didn't. Is that so hard?



EDIT: Good god, at first you steered clear of the "omg the factions hate the indies" crud but nooooo... listen, you think they restrict indie RP? No, they nudge it appropriately. The RP for the guys inside is tied up VERY closely and watched, not the other way around. They apply these restrictions to themselves, too. If they got a capship because they needed another one, they won't fly it now until it has an RP story, or at least definable RP. Which is all that ANYONE needs, indie or faction is IRRELEVANT. Why must you be so dense?

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[Akumabito]

Why must you be so dense?

I'm not dense, you are still failing to acknowledge the simple facts and instead you are relying on insults. Once again I would ask that you search yourself to find the maturity to discuss a point based on the facts without the insults.

When you can do that I'll address your points again, and see if you actually have a rebuttal.

[podcof]

Completely wrong. First off it was an M60 tank, secondly he stoled it, he didn't buy it, thirdly I used to know a guy who owned a tank, he was a citizen, he drove it in parades and owned it legally.

If you're going to try to make a point, at least get the facts right from the start.
Sounds like you need to read your own advice and not make the same invalid points all over again while ignoring anything that shows you wrong.

semantics...you knew exactly what my point is. and youre only response to my post was to pick apart some small part of it that didnt really make any difference. which is the only thing you have been doing in your posts in this thread.
and what advice are you talking about, i didnt give any advice, i told you what would happen if you bought a capship with out 101st approval(which isnt hard to get if you put some effort forward and have some decent RP)


and that tank your friend owns, the gun main cannon doesn't work on it,which is why a privat citizen can legialy own it, he still cant drive it around town as he pleases. so if you want to use that excuse, go ahead and buy a capship just dont mount any guns on it.

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Alex.Vega[101st]

Omicron-85: KEEP OUT! |