Are outcast cap ships now open to any ID?

[sovereign]

Well, there are a lot of reasons. If you are an indie you are often outgunned, the fact is that even though multiple opponents can take down a cap ship it still gives you a better chance than a smaller ship in most situations.

Also you don't get CD'd by annoying NPC's near as much.

Also you need something to spend your money on once you have a transport. Maxed out fighters and bombers are cheap, then what?

And there is the prestige, it is a statement that you've put the effort in, credit wise anyway.

Now, some people like to cap whore (as poorly defined as that term is), but i think it's easy to call someone a cap whore when they aren't as well, and to pretend there is a problem that doesn't exist. Especially if you are low man in a clan, not allowed a cap ship, and there is this indie with one, or if you are a pirate in a GB, picking on a trader and along comes a BH in a cruiser or bigger.

Basically, cap ships are kinda cool. Servers with them attract more players than servers without them.

Yeah, capships are cool. They're also hard to RP, and I really hate flying them. I use my money to sponsor people who's RP is promising and to fund more fighters. MOAR!!!

And will you please stop saying this is faction vs. indie? IT IS NOT, THE FACTIONS HOLD THEMSELVES AND EACH OTHER TO THE SAME STANDARDS, IF NOT HIGHER ONES.

EDIT: I'd like to point out I use caps for emphasis since the point doesn't seem to be sinking in.

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[timmychen]

Can't believe I just read eight pages of this.

How about we let it die? You see a OC capship with an OORP ID, you report them and they get sanctioned. The end.

ADDED: To Sovereign's post directly below this one - Yeah, I know, but the whole "how much power does a faction have over its indies" thing has been discussed before. I don't remember where, but it was pointless. Whatever. Any more problems should be taken to the PMs.. You've suggested this before, Sovereign, but I doubt anyone is going to do it anyways. They almost never do.

Reason for Edit: Didn't want to make a new post.

[sovereign]

Can't believe I just read eight pages of this.

How about we let it die? You see a OC capship with an OORP ID, you report them and they get sanctioned. The end.

Even though the discussion is totally off that by this point, I'm all for letting this die.

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[Akumabito]

you have your evidence, just because you dont like it, doesnt mean its not valid....at this point your just in a pissing contest.

No one has present any evidence, just claims that they have not substantiated.

Where is the actual evidence?

You see a OC capship with an OORP ID, you report them and they get sanctioned. The end.

I agree, there is no need for power grabs by clans to stifle the indie players.

If someone is breaking the RP rules get a screenie and let the admins handle it, problem solved without trying to force the indies under your thumb with threats of oorp killing.

And will you please stop saying this is faction vs. indie? IT IS NOT, THE FACTIONS HOLD THEMSELVES AND EACH OTHER TO THE SAME STANDARDS, IF NOT HIGHER ONES.

Which isn't the point, the point is that the factions are putting extra, unneeded rules on the indies in what looks like a power grab, even if the indies are operating within server rules.

And caps is shouting, as you probably know.

[Jihadjoe]

You really haven't noticed anything I have said. You complete... well never mind...

I actualy gave you a situation from my own experince in which it worked. I have also seen people write stories for their ships, and say "wow I'm really into the whole RP thing" but you don't listen to that do you... you focus on the negative stuff that suits your arguement and completely ignore the stuff that shows HOW VERY VERY WRONG YOU ARE!!

This is not about faction vs indy, this is about faction vs crappy roleplay that treads on our own roleplay. The enjoyment of one individual cannot come at the cost of a whole groups enjoyment.

Whatever you say you will not win this arguement, you don't know the situation that promted this, you don't know the people who are dealing with it, and thus, as a under-informed casual observer you are in no position to comment. You are arguing with some very experienced roleplayers here, who know both the rules and the outcast story and statistics inside out. Do not think that you can even hope to make a difference here, if anything you only serve to strengthen our arguement.

You have lost the scant respect I had for you... good night. If this thread could be locked by the morning that would be awesome ... Oh wait I know how to do that.

*Static*

Edit... eppy we seem to be ending up on the same side of the fence a lot lately... Is something wrong?

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[Eppy]

The point, my good man, is that we, as the faction, can do damn near whatever we want, and we're having the courtesy not to. You see, I make a point of trying to keep my head small(er). Big egos don't run factions well. You, sir, make my brain flare and make me want to abuse my total dictatorial control over the Outcast precedent, ban all indie Outcasts whatsoever and start a manhunt for you. You are a newbie with six weeks of forum participation under your belt. We are a faction and about half a dozen others with quite a sum of accomplishments to our name. We have been studying this community's behavior for years. We understand it better than you do, and I am insulted that you think you can storm onto the forums and tell me how to do my job. You don't like it? Here's the deal. Create a large militarized faction and try governing some space with some very popular ships produced within and a few major trade routes. See how long you last before you start begging for an indie ban. THEN I'll accept the idea that you know what you're talking about, but until then all you've done is told me to conduct a scientific inquiry into something that already works and that everybody knows works.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[DarthCloakedGuy]

The point, my good man, is that we, as the faction, can do damn near whatever we want, and we're having the courtesy not to. You see, I make a point of trying to keep my head small(er). Big egos don't run factions well. You, sir, make my brain flare and make me want to abuse my total dictatorial control over the Outcast precedent, ban all indie Outcasts whatsoever and start a manhunt for you. You are a newbie with six weeks of forum participation under your belt. We are a faction and about half a dozen others with quite a sum of accomplishments to our name. We have been studying this community's behavior for years. We understand it better than you do, and I am insulted that you think you can storm onto the forums and tell me how to do my job. You don't like it? Here's the deal. Create a large militarized faction and try governing some space with some very popular ships produced within and a few major trade routes. See how long you last before you start begging for an indie ban. THEN I'll accept the idea that you know what you're talking about, but until then all you've done is told me to conduct a scientific inquiry into something that already works and that everybody knows works.

Forgive me, I know nothing, and do not claim to know anything except how to fly a starfighter. I must ask you though, are you the leader of the 101st, the Outcast Guard, or the Outcasts? You seem to be speaking for an entire NPC faction.

I'm just asking for a clarification here. I'm not trying to argue, and I am entirely sitting on the fence in this discussion. Anyone who attempts to win me to their side will be punched in the face.

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HISPANIANS, FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF HER PEOPLE
A Plea to the Outcasts (PG)
CHARACTERS:
LR-I.Got.Nothin', LR-Empty.Pockets, and LR-Dead.End = "Lash" McDaggit of the Liberty Rogues.
SMUG~Eat.My.Exhaust = Jane Terraman and Bob McAdams, smugglers of the Liberty Rogues.
[H]Cj.Martino.Perez = Martino Perez, self-declared Counselor of the Hispanians.
AVATAR MADE BY SPIRIT! THE AWESOME.

[sovereign]

Forgive me, I know nothing, and do not claim to know anything except how to fly a starfighter. I must ask you though, are you the leader of the 101st, the Outcast Guard, or the Outcasts? You seem to be speaking for an entire NPC faction.

I'm just asking for a clarification here. I'm not trying to argue, and I am entirely sitting on the fence in this discussion. Anyone who attempts to win me to their side will be punched in the face.

He is the leader of the 101st who ARE the Outcast Guard and who safeguard the interests of the Outcasts. He represents the general will of the Outcasts (every Outcast I've seen post anywhere about this supports it, as do many who aren't) as well as having the RP force of easily the most powerful and influential individual in the Outcasts, aside from possibly the leader of the Blue Lotus Syndicate, given their spreading dominion of the cardamine trade and now near exclusive rights to sell to the Golden Chrysanthemums. By the way, that individual (zapp) also supports this whole-heartedly, as do all other major parties involved. So far, no Outcast has taken offense to this, in the event that their request was denied they still RP'd being rogue (see the thread for an example). So really the only person with a problem here is someone who IS NOT an Outcast, nor affected by this. Seems kind of fishy, no? Especially when said person claims to know what is best for the Outcasts far better than the entirety of the Outcasts? Pff.

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[DarthCloakedGuy]

He is the leader of the 101st who ARE the Outcast Guard and who safeguard the interests of the Outcasts. He represents the general will of the Outcasts (every Outcast I've seen post anywhere about this supports it, as do many who aren't) as well as having the RP force of easily the most powerful and influential individual in the Outcasts, aside from possibly the leader of the Blue Lotus Syndicate, given their spreading dominion of the cardamine trade and now near exclusive rights to sell to the Golden Chrysanthemums. By the way, that individual (zapp) also supports this whole-heartedly, as do all other major parties involved. So far, no Outcast has taken offense to this, in the event that their request was denied they still RP'd being rogue (see the thread for an example). So really the only person with a problem here is someone who IS NOT an Outcast, nor affected by this. Seems kind of fishy, no? Especially when said person claims to know what is best for the Outcasts far better than the entirety of the Outcasts? Pff.

Okay, thanks. That's where I was confused. I thought the Outcast Guard were NPCs like all the other Guard factions. Thanks for clearing that up.

*edit* By the way, Sovereign, in order to remain a man of my word, I have to do this. *punches you softly in the face*

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HISPANIANS, FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF HER PEOPLE
A Plea to the Outcasts (PG)
CHARACTERS:
LR-I.Got.Nothin', LR-Empty.Pockets, and LR-Dead.End = "Lash" McDaggit of the Liberty Rogues.
SMUG~Eat.My.Exhaust = Jane Terraman and Bob McAdams, smugglers of the Liberty Rogues.
[H]Cj.Martino.Perez = Martino Perez, self-declared Counselor of the Hispanians.
AVATAR MADE BY SPIRIT! THE AWESOME.

[sovereign]

Okay, thanks. That's where I was confused. I thought the Outcast Guard were NPCs like all the other Guard factions. Thanks for clearing that up.

*edit* By the way, Sovereign, in order to remain a man of my word, I have to do this. *punches you softly in the face*

Aww, it was a soft punch. How cute. :P

Clarifications are no problem, just send me a PM if you need to know anything else, I'm always willing to help!

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