Why is PvP so damn difficult?

[Karlotta]

Stop taking it out of context. This was a reponse to "I don't want to train/get better so that means the game is unfair so everyone else has to suffer because of my laziness" kind of attitude in the post

I don't think the OP would agree to your interpretation of the context of his words.

I don't care, it's what is essentially happening in this thread because it's just an unsavable mess, but it's a genuine fact that for any FPS game you'll require some basic practice at aiming.

The way I interpret it, nomnom's general point (I dont agree with everything, but I believe I share the general idea of the post) is that the odds here are rigged in favor of people who trained pvp to levels that are realistically unachievable by most people.

So heavily rigged in a manner that those who cant achieve them are not able to enjoy the game anymore, because they'll meet mostly people that they can never beat.

And yes, I said "cant" not "choose not to" achieve.

That's because no sane person would go through the amount of "work" necessary to beat the resident rekt-ur-ship aces for the small joy of getting to a 1/3 kill death ratio after months of training.

And before you say "but others did it":
1. At that times when they did there were more noobs which they could have fun with and get positive experiences winning against them.
2. I don't consider everyone here sane.

@Yber

Well I havent used a sidewinder since when you could mount more than one missile, but its getting fixed anyway it seems.

The rage against missiles has been going on since for ever. In my experience, it was always about them being used in group fights against people who couldnt be hit with guns because shieldrunning.

Hence my impression that the constant nerfing or calls for nerfing comes from people who want to be invincible to groups of people who have lower-than-aimbot level aim.

EDIT: On the subject of getting both positive experiences and challenges for noobs, there's a lot else to be said but that would be off topic.

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[Shiki]

Can't we stop with PvP communism? People who are good worked on that and deserved it. No, having person who's doing nothing and person who's spending weeks in conn getting better equal is wrong.

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[Karlotta]

Can't we stop with PvP communism? People who are good worked on that and deserved it. No, having person who's doing nothing and person who's spending weeks in conn getting better equal is wrong.

The "communism" line of argumentation could also be applied to cap/snub balance.

Someone who spent months trading and mining feels cheated when they get pwned by two guys who spent 5 mil on a bomber and a nova launcher each.

People who mine and trade contribute more to server gameplay than people training in conn.

If people keep getting punished for building wealth and ships and bases and for trying to give noobs positive experiences (which forcing them to either catch up with 10 years of pvp training or to always lose is not) by letting the less skilled win from time to time, what do you think will happen to the server population?

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[Shiki]

Can't we stop with PvP communism? People who are good worked on that and deserved it. No, having person who's doing nothing and person who's spending weeks in conn getting better equal is wrong.

The "communism" line of argumentation could also be applied to cap/snub balance.

Someone who spent months trading and mining feels cheated when they get pwned by two guys who spent 5 mil on a bomber and a nova launcher each.

Are you seriously implying that bombers are actually relevant power against the caps? Novas? Well, every newbie knows that battleship needs a flak. If person is not having one, then dying under nova fire is deserved.

People who mine and trade contribute more to server gameplay than people training in conn.

If people keep getting punished for building wealth and ships and bases and for trying to give noobs positive experiences (which forcing them to either catch up with 10 years of pvp training or to always lose is not) by letting the less skilled win from time to time, what do you think will happen to the server population?

Are you operating on a binary level? I mean person can ONLY trade or ONLY train in conn?

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[Jack_Henderson]

Let's not derail the thread in which both sides were actually not that far from each other by doing 1on1 battles.

There seems to be an understanding - if I read Yber and Antonio's posts correctly - that "non-broken missiles that fill a gun-slot and that have a working counter (like CM)" didn't break the game in the past, and would not break it now if we went into that direction again. I agree.

Having -1 gun slot would be a real disadvantage and is generally not advisable, and is a status that everybody who wants to become good at pvp has to fix sooner or later. Those who are hopeless and cannot get it working, can always stick to it, shoot their ammo out, have some reasonable impact and then die.

Having that non-borked missile in a gun slot, would allow new/bad/inexperienced players to add something in a fight and it would help to avoid the feeling of "cannon fodder, can't do anything but die without contributing." I think we agreed that it is not good if players turn their back to pvp because of the frustration of not having any success ever.

If I did not misunderstand this chance for a consensus, that's when we "just" need a dev to make this happen.

[Goliath]

Hrm.... I personally think the only problem with PvP are the new balances, a few fixes are required on snubs, weaponry, and weapons (in all views). I do believe the devs are doing their best to fix this.


The PvP is also harder for the simple reason that most of the community are veterans, who worked hard to get their skill in PvP, which basically grants them easy blues on the newbies who visit the community everyday.

(This is just my personal opinion)

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[Backo]

I tried.



But again, like many of the people who are good in this game will say it probably won't be enough for 1 video to make you a pro, the most important thing is to actually play the game and practice. You don't have to spend all day doing it but even making sure to log in conn for 5-10 min a day is going to be more than enough to eventually make a difference as long as you're open minded and ready to experiment.

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Republic of the Sword and Sun

[Kanzler Niemann]

I don't understand why people always bring the "balance" thing into a pvp discussion, sure pvp is not perfect and it will never be and it will never be perfect balanced for everyone. The most important thing in pvp is skill and experience. You won't obtain both if you don't do the actual pvp, sure its not fun to be mowed down by a guy who is way better than yourself. I can tell from my experience, that I did pvp most of the time I played Freelancer except from trading for monies.

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[Goliath]

I don't understand why people always bring the "balance" thing into a pvp discussion, sure pvp is not perfect and it will never be and it will never be perfect balanced for everyone. The most important thing in pvp is skill and experience. You won't obtain both if you don't do the actual pvp, sure its not fun to be mowed down by a guy who is way better than yourself. I can tell from my experience, that I did pvp most of the time I played Freelancer except from trading for monies.

It is true, to get better in PvP you must practice. And as funny as it sounds, the only way to get better is to get beaten by pros and learn how they do it. Though...newbies will never accept this at first, this is inevitable. The only thing they can do is to keep trying.

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[Thunderer]

Wow. 13 pages. Instead of here, maybe you should redistribute your admirable posting energy here, here and here.

I'm planning to write an RP story with a lot of DRAMA for you chaps to read and badmouth on Skype and bite your nails from, but sadly, I have to finish my exams first. Write some of your own in the meantime! You can do it!