The Raven's Claw

[tfmachad]

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There is absolutely no good reason to suddenly limit who it is available to.

Other than making perfect sense with the story portrayed by the ship's info card, the agenda of the faction to which the ship is related to and the overall meaningful ambiance everyone is striving to promote in the server?

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Meet the Kriegers - The story of a family and of two men that shared more than just a name
Fantasmas de la Nube Siniestra
I Mon'Star: The Strange Case of Elizabeth Wallace

[DW-Suzanna]

I bought the ship in september 2007. As for the current info card saying that LSF stole it from Kushiro.....well that does not stop some original ravensclaws still remaining in the possession of others who bought it legally before it was stolen:rolleyes:

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Sig edited out because it tripped Chrome's malware alarm.

[mjolnir]

In September 2007 the infocard was exactly the same, even though it was sold on a Junker base.... also BHG are hostile to junkers... so you actually couldn't buy it there anyway.

Though yes you are not 100% BHG.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Raekur]

So if the ship was stolen from Kusari by Liberty, does that mean that any Liberty forces flying it should be attacked by Kusari. Same approach that established factions use for attacking independents flying "their" ships. So based on past attitudes if the ship is going to be limited by faction then the only ones that should be flying it is Kusari since it has been stated more then once that "stealing or aquiring the plans" does not work as a RP excuse.

And Mjolnir, if DarkWing are not BHG, what are we?

[tfmachad]

So if the ship was stolen from Kusari by Liberty, does that mean that any Liberty forces flying it should be attacked by Kusari. Same approach that established factions use for attacking independents flying "their" ships.
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Bad form of reductio ad absurdum.

The ship wasn't stolen from Kusari, but from Kishiro (slight difference), the info card is inconclusive as to the actual terms of the said robbery (purpose and scenario) as well as to the original plans for the project (possible defense contract dispute?). Considering the overall scenario of the large corporations portrayed in Sirius, that design doesn't look (not the ship's looks, more like it's original specs) like it was meant to be applied for regular escort duties.

Anyway, as for the same approach part. Organizations have better means to apply force (both political and physical) against rogue agents than the other way around. Also, as the context grows, the application of force becomes a last resort option. You don't see many governments eager to go to war against others, specially when they're likely to lose the conflict (in RP). Kusari is already engaged in a tangled war against Bretonia, they likely don't want anymore trouble coming from Liberty then they are already getting indirectly (considering Liberty sounds more partial to Bretonia than Kusari). To quote Londo Molari:

"Only a fool fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the kingdom of fools fights a war on twelve fronts!"

I don't think a ship's plans stolen from a national corporation is reason enough for Kusari to risk going to war against Liberty, even if the design was originally meant for military use. Another thing can be extrapolated from the info card's short story. Why would LSF steal a ship they could easily acquire indirectly through purchase? It doesn't sound reasonable that the ship was stolen while it was in production and it doesn't sound reasonable that the ship is in production in Kusari as it isn't for sale there (but then again this is questionable).

All in all, we get away from physical force to the realm of politics. Even though Liberty can rest somewhat assured that Kusari wouldn't take any open exceptions against that event, they wouldn't want the bad publicity that would come along with the government being openly accused of theft because of a ship. So it's likely LSF would apply the stolen design very quietly if it's really worth it (covert ops and the sort). I'd go as far as saying that the exterior design of the ship, if it is now built by/for LSF, probably would have little to do with the Kishiro original. That is, in itself, enough reason for that ship not to be openly applied by anyone, specially the navy, unless engaged in some sort of very quiet operation. And that's more than enough reason to presume the same ship wouldn't be out there for sale for just anyone.

If Kishiro continued it's project and production, the whole LSF theft of the ship is rather silly. If they can reverse engineer a prototype, they would be able to do the same with a stock model easily purchasable by a third party. If the ship's designs were stolen during the project phase and Kishiro managed to resume it, then we need a base in Kusari selling this ship, otherwise the whole issue remains unsolvable.

EDIT: Hell, I'd say that even LSF should use the ship more scrupulously (if they are engaged in regular law enforcement stuff).

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Meet the Kriegers - The story of a family and of two men that shared more than just a name
Fantasmas de la Nube Siniestra
I Mon'Star: The Strange Case of Elizabeth Wallace

[Zeltak]

And Mjolnir, if DarkWing are not BHG, what are we?

It's totaly inapproriate for Bounty Hunters to use the Ravens Claw when they have their own shipline, now that you stated the DW being a BHG faction.

[sovereign]

It's totaly inapproriate for Bounty Hunters to use the Ravens Claw when they have their own shipline, now that you stated the DW being a BHG faction.

I seem to recall there being an issue with them handing out of Liberty Assault Carriers to new members...

Funny, THAT was military hardware as well, which was procured before the BHG had their own. Well, they got their own, they kept handing them to people who wanted them... right...at least that got fixed after a funderful forum flame fest.

Same idea here. It's military equipment, NO ONE other than the military gets to use it. If you "bought one before it got classified" :nono: then as soon as it gets destroyed, where the hell do you get a new one? Do you just walk up to Battleship Mississippi and ask for parts for a top of the line, highly classified intelligence service stealth fighter? Pff.:dry:Please, replace it the next time it gets destroyed, if not sooner.

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[tfmachad]

Come on, guys. Let's try and keep this a discussion around reasonable scenarios and events, not let's bash this and that character/faction. We're better than this.

As many have stated here before, there's not only one person inadvertently using the ship. Also, I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a military ship. I'd say it's an experimental ship (reason why it should be even more restricted than a military ship).

@ Suzanna and Raekur. This discussion wasn't directed at you guys and until you brought the subject onto yourselves (actually Suzanna did that). So step down a little from getting personal and try and think around the matter. If/when a compromise is met by the community or those directly interested/involved, everyone should make the necessary changes and adapt.

"I had this before" doesn't really cut it, many mercenaries had ships larger than gunboats in 4.83 and had to give them up when the 4.84 Mercenary ID came. Corsairs used civilian equipment because they thought they would be openly available to everyone, still one got sanctioned and they withdrew from the stuff. So, come on, demonstrate some willingness to cooperate and create a sensible environment.

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Meet the Kriegers - The story of a family and of two men that shared more than just a name
Fantasmas de la Nube Siniestra
I Mon'Star: The Strange Case of Elizabeth Wallace

[DW-Suzanna]

simple answer.....to Sovreign.........No!

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[Zeltak]

Come on, guys. Let's try and keep this a discussion around reasonable scenarios and events, not let's bash this and that character/faction. We're better than this.

As many have stated here before, there's not only one person inadvertently using the ship. Also, I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a military ship. I'd say it's an experimental ship (reason why it should be even more restricted than a military ship).

I understand and agree with you Gronath. I apologize if my post seemed as bashing, but they stated their opinion to use the Ravens Claw, and I stated mine to why they shouldn't.

Edit:

@ Suzannas recent post: You mean, 'no' to: "We refuse to let go of our Ravens Claws". I let that one speak for itself.

Or do you mean, DW are not a BHG? Then i'm really confused.