I'm currently bothered with one thing, did you guys communicate with the RM before you decided to use ships thats in their control? I mean from a Roleplaying perspective. Like for example, PM the leader of the RM and ask: "We are creating a group called X and if it goes well, we might aim for a faction proposal. Here is our current layout [Insert your story, aim, goal etc.] , with that in mind, could we try roleplay that we somehow got our hands on Rheinland ship?"
Just a peaceful question (this is not a flame).
Also, StormStrikr, by critisizing you learn to improve. This is actually one of the most effective ways to help improve a group that tries forward his idea. Suggesting ideas is another one. Both are essential.
Teflon Wrote:with that being said, why would you need any ship besides a whale?
firing a weapon much less having any mounted, would be rather counterproductive to your apparent cause. Correct?
Wikipedia Wrote:Some anarchists have opposed coercion, while others have supported it, particularly in the form of violent revolution on the path to anarchy or utopia.
One way or another. We take who is willing to go to Utopia, and some people try to stop us. We have to fight back, yes?
Linkus -
Linkus Wrote:Though considering that a society that is completely sharing etc is pretty much communism in it's pure form, you sound very alike to the SCRA.
A - Yes. Technically, communism in its purest form. Only we've done it! (In Utopia)
B - Difference between us and the SCRA? We're trying to get people to a better life in a to-be-created/bought system Utopia. It just so happens that when we preach of better lives in Utopia, the House governments don't much like that. They lose workers, tax payer credits, and most of all, we're talking about the lack of government where all are equal, there is no hierachy, everybody shares (mostly) and for that cannot be shared, there is barter. No amount of credits to set you above others.
So see, we want to make better the lives of those willing to come with us, the SCRA want to utterly annihilate all Houses in general due to their previous place in the Alliance. *cough* Sooommebody can't let go of an 800 year old grudge.
of course it would be nice if everyone could live in peace and harmony and we could just fly transports. unfortunately, that would be both highly unlikely as well as really boring for the game. why do we need military ships? well, the idea is that amongst the anarcho-autarkists there are anarcho-militarists (those who see the need for a military defense) who want to protect the new society of the autarks. these are our characters (for the most part; the H.Tubman ship is a converted prison liner used to convey people to Utopia). within our community there isn't any need for weapons. but there are those outside it who would attack us, and therefore we need them.
also, the 'pure' form of communism where everyone shares everything, which has never existed, is not what the SCRA is about. they are obviously advocates of the form of communism as practiced through history, which involves later additions such as the 'dictatorship of the proletariat' etc. the autarks are not advocates of that sort of Leninism or etc. and yes, while the SCRA wants to destroy the houses for being part of the Alliance, the autarks believe that sooner or later all governments must fall (this is a historical inevitability) and so we must only build our own society up and wait for this to happen, at which point we can help others to build a new and better society. it's a long-term planning idea.
and finally, the idea of perfect neutrality is nice but doesn't make sense. we're not trying to change how all zoners interact with others, but we do think that we will come into conflict with some factions at least. for the time being, this is still a fluid thing. no major factions have come out against us- maybe Rheinland has and has decided not to tell us, i'm not sure- and so we will have to wait and see who is directly opposed to us. the reason we're saying we're neutral is simple- we're not starting any fights with anyone. it's not that we expect to be fully neutral to everyone but rather that our enemies haven't attacked us yet. this is something more RP will end up resolving, as sooner or later players in some faction or another will decide they don't want "hippy zoners" (someone said that in game last night) to exist.
"would i be amused / would you be impressed / that i had the power to put a hole into your chest / when the kids are cryin' and the welfare check's been spent / would i rob a liquor store to get some money for the rent"
' Wrote:I'm currently bothered with one thing, did you guys communicate with the RM before you decided to use ships thats in their control? I mean from a Roleplaying perspective. Like for example, PM the leader of the RM and ask: "We are creating a group called X and if it goes well, we might aim for a faction proposal. Here is our current layout [Insert your story, aim, goal etc.] , with that in mind, could we try roleplay that we somehow got our hands on Rheinland ship?"
Just a peaceful question (this is not a flame).
Also, StormStrikr, by critisizing you learn to improve. This is actually one of the most effective ways to help improve a group that tries forward his idea. Suggesting ideas is another one. Both are essential.
// Vincent
ah, i forgot to reply to this along with the other stuff i replied to..
we talked about what ships to use at length and decided to go with Rheinland and zoner ships. i wasn't the one who thought of Rheinland ships, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. since then i think we've created a sort of story of how that happened. we didn't talk to the RM directly, and really it didn't occur to me at least to just ask them. maybe we should have a conversation with the RM though. that would be a good idea, thanks.
"would i be amused / would you be impressed / that i had the power to put a hole into your chest / when the kids are cryin' and the welfare check's been spent / would i rob a liquor store to get some money for the rent"
Lenin did not want a dictatorship to last long at all. He merely wanted it to accelerate the eventual coming about of Communism. Unfortunately he died before any of this could happen though some of his actions could have actually meant the eventual coming about of Communism was impossible so might have been just as well he died.
What I'm curious is how you managed to get everyone on Utopia to completely give up greed and envy? They are some basic feelings that humans have from even infantile age. Also what happens when people disagree about things?
Don't mean to poke holes in the faction, it would be a nice one, but it seems to far fetched in present days, let alone in Freelancer times where every government oppresses it's people in one way or another.
' Wrote:ah, i forgot to reply to this along with the other stuff i replied to..
we talked about what ships to use at length and decided to go with Rheinland and zoner ships. i wasn't the one who thought of Rheinland ships, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. since then i think we've created a sort of story of how that happened. we didn't talk to the RM directly, and really it didn't occur to me at least to just ask them. maybe we should have a conversation with the RM though. that would be a good idea, thanks.
Well, I was about to ask if you've contacted Virus before dropping that bomb on our laps. Zeltak already did and from the answer I expect to hear from Virus and/or RM's High Command on how I (player) should interpret this.
I'll refrain from commenting on this until I receive instructions from my own faction leaders regarding this little surprise package. Until then, expect me and my character to react to this exactly in the same fashion he would to any other such case.
' Wrote:also, the 'pure' form of communism where everyone shares everything, which has never existed, is not what the SCRA is about. they are obviously advocates of the form of communism as practiced through history, which involves later additions such as the 'dictatorship of the proletariat' etc. the autarks are not advocates of that sort of Leninism or etc. and yes, while the SCRA wants to destroy the houses for being part of the Alliance, the autarks believe that sooner or later all governments must fall (this is a historical inevitability) and so we must only build our own society up and wait for this to happen, at which point we can help others to build a new and better society. it's a long-term planning idea.
No TRUE Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge!
Why do anarcho-communists want to steal the ship designs of a fascist theocracy? Unless they are mainly made up of Rheinlanders, wouldn't they mainly want to do bombings and the like against Liberty?
' Wrote:No TRUE Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge!
Why do anarcho-communists want to steal the ship designs of a fascist theocracy? Unless they are mainly made up of Rheinlanders, wouldn't they mainly want to do bombings and the like against Liberty?
Thats like asking why arent we killing bretonia, or kusari. because we currently are ironing out the bugs with this, as shown by above. Yes, we will probably end up hated by one house, but at least let us get kinda set up before a faction brings out the whole, "kos" thing.
and to answer an above question, we do not have capitalS. we have ONE. not plural, and its our flagship. i see no reason why we shouldent have at least one to defend ourselves against attacks. also, rp wise our home planet is suposed to be kinda far, so i dont see a cluster of small ships making the journy without at least one large ship to accompany them.
UPDATE: after discussing amongst ourselves the massive controversy concerning our use of Rheinland ships, especially the cruiser, we have decided to revise the RP backstory about that area and use a zoner cruiser instead. the changed area is marked above (between ***s). the revised version is as follows:
about the Autarks:
[]=OORP
we are anarcho-autarkists [radical zoners], who seek to establish a utopian society based around the anarchist values of community, respect, care, autonomy, and equality. in order to do so we believe in establishing autarky (self-sufficiency), first for our entire community (this is established), then for each collective within it, and finally for each individual. our covert operatives have stolen plans to the Wrath fighter to aid us in military defense of our home system, Utopia [which we're saving up for, don't have it yet] whose location is a closely guarded secret. we have built a few of these ships and will build more in order to establish a defense and to combat those enemies who seek to stop us by force. we also wish to slowly persuade those who have similar ideals to join our cause through diplomacy. our flagship is a Fearless, flown by Autark Mikuru. this is the largest ship we feel the need to have, and obtaining it has taxed our resources, so we do not foresee the ability to acquire more capital ships at this time. other than the Wrath, we use Zoner equipment [civilian ships are ok, but for RP we don't want to go overboard with ship types]. we also have access to a limited amount of Nomad equipment modified for human ship use [maximum of 2 Nomad or code name weapons per ship].
this has been a public service message from (A)utark_Herakleitos
the old version- changes have been marked:
about the Autarks:
[]=OORP
we are anarcho-autarkists [radical zoners], who seek to establish a utopian society based around the anarchist values of community, respect, care, autonomy, and equality. in order to do so we believe in establishing autarky (self-sufficiency), first for our entire community (this is established), then for each collective within it, and finally for each individual. ***we have stolen plans to a few Rheinland vessels*** to aid us in military defense of our home system, Utopia [which we're saving up for, don't have it yet] whose location is a closely guarded secret. we have built a few of these ships and will build more in order to establish a defense and to combat those enemies who seek to stop us by force. we also wish to slowly persuade those who have similar ideals to join our cause through diplomacy. ***our flagship is a modified Rheinland battle cruiser, flown by Autark Mikuru. this is the largest ship we feel the need to have, and building it has taxed our resources, so we do not foresee the ability to build more capital ships at this time. other than the Rheinland designs we have acquired***, we use Zoner equipment [civilian ships are ok, but for RP we don't want to go overboard with ship types]. we also have access to a limited amount of Nomad equipment modified for human ship use [maximum of 2 Nomad or code name weapons per ship].
this has been a public service message from (A)utark_Herakleitos
"would i be amused / would you be impressed / that i had the power to put a hole into your chest / when the kids are cryin' and the welfare check's been spent / would i rob a liquor store to get some money for the rent"
' Wrote:Lenin did not want a dictatorship to last long at all. He merely wanted it to accelerate the eventual coming about of Communism. Unfortunately he died before any of this could happen though some of his actions could have actually meant the eventual coming about of Communism was impossible so might have been just as well he died.
What I'm curious is how you managed to get everyone on Utopia to completely give up greed and envy? They are some basic feelings that humans have from even infantile age. Also what happens when people disagree about things?
Don't mean to poke holes in the faction, it would be a nice one, but it seems to far fetched in present days, let alone in Freelancer times where every government oppresses it's people in one way or another.
you're right in that Lenin himself didn't want it to be permanent, but what later was labelled 'Leninism' has more to do with later thinkers in the Soviet Union and their interpretations. so when i say Leninism i mean communism as practiced, not what Lenin wanted.
also, people in Utopia haven't become saints. what is in place is an anarchist system of government-alternative. i'm planning on writing some nice background stuff on this when i have the time, but basically the autarks are all signatory members of 'the Compact' which is like a constitution-document. it's the methods of dispute arbitration and basic laws that enable people to live together well despite normal human problems such as envy. as for greed, most people who come to Utopia are either from backgrounds where they never had enough and now have it better, or are simply the type of people you'd expect in a utopian movement- people who reject such things as greed intellectually and then attempt to get rid of it in themselves. this is always an ongoing, personal, evolution.
also part of the expanded backstory will include more details on how society in Utopia works. things like the creche childcare system help to ensure that the next generation will have less psychological problems than the current. there are also other fun sci fi utopian ideas i have for this backstory. right now all i can say is that i've got the ideas but haven't had time to write it down.
oh, and just as we in the real world have the technology to do a lot more than we do to improve our society, in the Sirius Sector there is even more technology that can be used in such ways- and part of what helps is that people can colonize a new planet where they can do things themselves, something we can't do in the real world.
Quote:Well, I was about to ask if you've contacted Virus before dropping that bomb on our laps. Zeltak already did and from the answer I expect to hear from Virus and/or RM's High Command on how I (player) should interpret this.
i've been talking to Virus since someone suggested it.. and we've resolved the problems of using the Rheinland cruiser.. check the revised 'about the (A)utarks' blurb. we're only using Wraths now, and Virus said he was ok with this.
"would i be amused / would you be impressed / that i had the power to put a hole into your chest / when the kids are cryin' and the welfare check's been spent / would i rob a liquor store to get some money for the rent"
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