Also, might as well ask some clarification questions from another thread here. It looks like others are able to post in the "Rule Clarification Thread" in the "official disco rules" sub-folder, but I cant, probably because of the probation status. So anyhow:
1. Should hiring players ingame to kill other players really be against the rules? It seems that current rules make it illegal, although its widely and intuitively practiced by players ingame. So maybe it should be made illegal to hire people to kill other players while you're not logged on anymore without posting it on the forum.
2. Is this sort of tech permission still practiced and relevant? "Official factions have the right to bounty or attack a player who uses their technology without either the faction ID or official permission, regardless of their diplomacy with the faction of the perpetrator. These permissions may only be given by official factions affiliated with the manufacturer of said technology, and must be documented in roleplay on the forum."
It seems like the tech nerf made it obsolete. Should something about SRPs be mentioned instead? If yes, what?
3. This one is an idea Thyrzul suggested in another thread. It translates into a rule that says that although ships can travel out of their ZOI as long as they don't violate their ID engagement restrictions, they will receive a PvP-Death penalty of 2 days (or longer) instead of 2 hours, which applies to everything outside their ZOI instead of just the system they died in. I hope that such a rule would also make it possible to lift some restriction like Zoners not being able to dock large ships in house space, and Order caps having to stay out of systems that have a jump gate. That could possible require some ID editing, which I don't really want to get into here, but I thought I'd mention it and ask for admin/dev comments on it.
4. I don't know if something like this is already in practice, and don't want to re-formulate SRP rules like the rest, but could we get and additional SRP rule like this: "SRP holders must have the special permissions and limitations linked to their SRP visible in the /info."
5. From the current POB rules: "Name, location and IFF of bases are permanent and can’t be changed after construction." Is it a rule that IFFs are not allowed to be changed, or did it just remain from the time before a base could have its rep set to that of a certain ship whenever one wants.
6. Only "non generic" IDs may hire people for bounties. Are there other "generic IDs" than Freelancer, Pirates, and Miners? Do BHG, Zoners, and Junkers count as "generic IDs"
(05-06-2018, 11:33 PM)Karlotta Wrote: 2. Is this sort of tech permission still practiced and relevant? "Official factions have the right to bounty or attack a player who uses their technology without either the faction ID or official permission, regardless of their diplomacy with the faction of the perpetrator. These permissions may only be given by official factions affiliated with the manufacturer of said technology, and must be documented in roleplay on the forum."
It seems like the tech nerf made it obsolete. Should something about SRPs be mentioned instead? If yes, what?
Tech nerf is not rules enforcement; it is (imo a misguided attempt at) RP enforcement. You can run, totally within the rules, a Samura ID/IFF Paladin with a mix of Order and Rogue guns, despite you getting 10% core regen from it, but chances are all of those factions are going to consider you a dangerously unstable entity for doing so and will likely FR5 you and then some.
I am not an admin, but I know the answer to some of your questions.
1) Hiring players ingame to kill others is not explicitly against the rules but there are certain parameters that must be met; generally only certain IDs can be hired on the spot by non-generic IDs. This post covers this, but after reading your post and checking the rules, bounty rules one and four are contradictory and would probably benefit from a small update.
2) Faction right six states official factions may pursue individuals who are using their ships and/or technology without permission. I have queried this in the past and while bounties may be Sirius-wide, I have had admin statements clarifying that engagements can only occur in the faction's zone of influence. I personally believe official factions should be able to engage tech thieves Sirius-wide, but that's for a thread of its own.
3) I think making ships outside their zone of influence be dead for more than two hours is a good idea. Two days is maybe too extreme, but four hours or even 12 might be a good change to the rules.
4) I think this is also a good idea and support it. SRP IDs should also all be unique and list their restrictions so they are easily accessible to others by scanning the ship.
5) This is still the rule. Player base names and IFFs are permanent. Locations can be changed under special circumstances such as system redesigns and mining field changes, but this is rare and conducted on a case by case basis.
6) Unless I'm missing any, generic IDs are freelancer, pirate and miner. Bounty Hunter, Zoner and Junker IDs are not generic.
About faction right six, does anyone know if factions are actually still using it? It seems people stopped "stealing" guns after the tech nerf introduced, and it's more a SRP-only thing now.
About the Bounty Hunting rules, yeah those are a huge mess and I wonder how new players are expected to ever be able to memorize them (which is necessary to obeying them ingame). It looks like exception after exception was added to suit what ever situation admins deemed adequate at the time, while totally losing view of the bigger picture. And even when adding all these exceptions, they still seem to fail at covering the most basic things. For example:
Quote:9. The character registered on a board must be at least neutral to their employer, and hostile to the faction they are targeting in a bounty. This does not apply to assassination missions where the target is a single character. Board owners are obliged to ensure that the persons they are hiring have a suitable reputation. This means no hiring or paying people who would be hostile to you based on previous actions or non-hostile with the targets they claim.
What does "This does not apply to assassination missions where the target is a single character." even mean? Does it man my navy char can hire an Outcast to kill a DSE char, as long as it happens in the right ZOI and is posted on the forum? Or my Order char can hire a Nomad to kill a Zoner? It seems there's nothing that forbids that in the old rules. That's why I re-designed them more or less with broader statements about rep.
(05-07-2018, 12:08 AM)Mephistoles Wrote: 3) I think making ships outside their zone of influence be dead for more than two hours is a good idea. Two days is maybe too extreme, but four hours or even 12 might be a good change to the rules.
The point of two days is to provide a meaningful consequence for those dying where they shouldn't be in the first place, a huge risk and deterrent, yet still not prohibition... unless you die out there... It is meant to emphasise the meaning of Zoner of Influence.
It would also be interesting to see if flight restrictions per rules/IDs can be replaced with this, like the case with the Order Karlotta mentioned.
Making it 4 or 12 hours only isn't really a big incentive to not seek "self defense" pvp outside your ZOI because you can still do it once per day, which is the number of times most people do anyway, even with the 2 hour wait. I think 2 days is minimum to make a real difference in behavior, I'd even go up to 2 weeks.
The Bounty Hunting rules here are probably those that deviate most from the original rules, so it would be nice to have some seasoned bounty hunters to comment on section 3.
1. You can now long distance hire players via PM.
"Hired ingame" is broad and can mean anything. Technically if your ID rules of engagement influences bounties, I can use an order ID player to long range bounty people all over the server for me to engage.
2. No way to tell if someone indeed bountied you.
Ties in with the above. The current wording seems to deem it sufficient if the mercenary informs you that you are bountied. If there is no forum bounty, and the mercenary's employer does not need to declare that you are bountied, how would anyone be able to tell if its pvp abuse?
3.Pirate and Miner IDs seem to gain bounty hunting rights as it seems that all characters can be hired.
For the sake of ID balance this is not the case currently
4. BHG IDs are forced into registering on all boards.
5. Defectors and other unorthodox rp characters are immune to bounties.
You have to be hostile to ALL targets even when they are following RP that might be detrimental to their parent faction. For example if an intelligence faction agent goes rogue their parent faction cannot bounty them in response. Likewise their contractors cannot claim on that person.
6. Loss of ability to place anonymous, bounties.
Line about administrators posting on behalf of players is missing.
(07-12-2018, 05:54 PM)Sciamach Wrote: Outcast slavery is actually far better for the victim than the corporate slavery and crime-less imprisonment of the Houses down in places like Liberty Rheinland and Bretonia
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