This is Exactly what I mean.

[Akumabito]

I apologise for the double post, but I believe this deserves its own post.
Here are the words of Xoria's that I reference in the post that has so inflamed the community.

The problem with those words is that they are nothing but a stamp of approval for pvp whoring.

Following that posts logic, a group of five indies are free to buy battleships and pvp any faction planet in order to exercise their law of the jungle as well. If five isn't enough they can find five more buddies and try it with 10.

The joke of it is this result is exactly what some are trying to avoid who are pushing this "we can pvp whore you" policy, but it's exactly what these actions are driving the indies to do.

the factions are bigger than a rogue indie or a forum troll.

Like in Rheindland, where I've seen three indy pirate caps take the system for hours?

The indies are bigger than the clans, all they need is a reason to band together to make things far worse than they are now. Your "we can pvp whore you because we have more people" is providing them that. It's already happening. Soon faction pirates will be facing multiple BH BC's at once while lawful factions will get swarmed with huntresses and OC dessies.

What you're doing now is only going to make that more likely.

[Athenian]

Although for the love of everything, I really would like to see my ID proposals specifically regarding Bounty Hunters implemented, because it is just getting ridiculous. I've never even seen a bounty hunter bomber in all my time here, and only seen a bounty hunter fighter 5-6 times. Even the bounty hunter gunboats i've only seen about 10-20 times in all. Almost every bounty hunter i've encountered on this server (which have been hundreds by now) is A) independent, B) very crap at RPing and C) flying a BH battlecruiser. Simply put...enough is enough :/

/signed

There are some BH bombers out there, it's a great ship, beautiful design and gives as good as it gets. The Manta is a fine fighter too. I'm sticking with them, I'll see out the BC craze until someone comes up with a solution.

I, somewhat reluctantly, went for the GBH after a while. It gets accused of being an uber ship in the forums occasionally, but by now it's the only thing that allows us to compete as bounties are mostly aimed against larger ships, plus every dope in a pirate ship opens up on you even after you've said you aren't interested in him. Some of them even tried to tax me the other evening.

I am in despair at trying to RP a bounty hunting agency. And it's nigh on impossible to actually catch anyone - the minute a fugitive turns up, two or three BH cruisers nearby come lumbering into the system. Who can blame them for high-tailing. But having said that, hunting is akin to stampeding now.

It's hard to find decent partners - I mean from a RP point of view. The splintered nature of the Guild is only exacerbated by the proliferation of BH capships. Plus they are behaving like the police. Hunters should only hunt for cash.

And all the BHers end up the same; more like Dog the Bounty Hunter than Boba Fett.

Here's to the day when this ends and the Guild begins to function properly. I think the task of running it will always be beyond a single factions's ability but if anyone wanted to step up to the plate and try to do it, I think they should move to control Guild technology pretty rigidly.

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Akumabito]

And all the BHers end up the same; more like Dog the Bounty Hunter than Boba Fett.

Well, the ID is more like dog than boba, boba is more a merc ID.

One problem is that all those BH BC's were bought with traders, those traders have a list of the pirates that pirated them when they were in a transport and the pirate was in a bomber or GB, so from that perspective there is not much difference between going after a trader with a GB or going after a GB with a BC.

I don't think any BHG will work to help this either, why would an indie give up his BC for a fighter to join a faction, when there really would be no benefits?

And especially when these BH BC's are flying them because they were pvp whored out of flying for the outcasts or other clans?

[Muleo]

Well, the ID is more like dog than boba, boba is more a merc ID.

One problem is that all those BH BC's were bought with traders, those traders have a list of the pirates that pirated them when they were in a transport and the pirate was in a bomber or GB, so from that perspective there is not much difference between going after a trader with a GB or going after a GB with a BC.

I don't think any BHG will work to help this either, why would an indie give up his BC for a fighter to join a faction, when there really would be no benefits?

And especially when these BH BC's are flying them because they were pvp whored out of flying for the outcasts or other clans?

Because they want to enjoy the game with other people, make friends, become part of something bigger. Obviously something you will never understand.

As for traders buying BCs and hunting pirates who pirated them, that's character confusion/revenge killing. Illegal.

[AdamantineFist]

Well, the ID is more like dog than boba, boba is more a merc ID.

One problem is that all those BH BC's were bought with traders, those traders have a list of the pirates that pirated them when they were in a transport and the pirate was in a bomber or GB, so from that perspective there is not much difference between going after a trader with a GB or going after a GB with a BC.

I don't think any BHG will work to help this either, why would an indie give up his BC for a fighter to join a faction, when there really would be no benefits?

And especially when these BH BC's are flying them because they were pvp whored out of flying for the outcasts or other clans?

Do you have any constructive suggestions then, Akumabito?

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[Athenian]

I don't think any BHG will work to help this either, why would an indie give up his BC for a fighter to join a faction, when there really would be no benefits?

Oh I could go in to it but I don't think you'd listen. You seem to have just an out and out hatred for factions.
You really didn't read what I wrote. Do you REALLY want to split hairs over the ID of a bloody Star Wars character?

BC's all over the place makes actual RPing a BH impossible. Hunting still goes on; but there's little or no RP.

What would the benefits be? Well players might get
. decent hunting partners, cause that's how hunting works best, and in my experience it's more enjopyable playing a game WITH other people rather than JUST AGAINST them.
. a reputation for being someone who is killing for a living rather than settling some ridiculous oorp grudge - i.e. a bounty hunter.
. the experience of the BH light craft which are outstanding.
. a realisation that the reason you dont see npc BH capships ANYWHERE in Sirius other than the Omicrons, Alaska is because its part of the game. The Core is waging the war against the Order. At the moment,the BHg seems to be a war with all the unlawful factions in Sirius, like police.
. the experience of being a hunter.
But I said all this already. You just didn't read it properly.

SHENANIGANS

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Akumabito]

Do you have any constructive suggestions then, Akumabito?

I have a lot of suggestions, but they tend to get ignored because I'm just a troll, since I don't agree with the faction leaders on this policy.

First off, give people somewhere to go with cap ships (because they are going to get them) where they can't do a lot of harm. I tried this and was jumped on (rather childishly) by the faction leaders for trying to create the [CSW], it was called a cap whore faction even though it wasn't and my CSW cruiser and GB have never pvp'd anyone.

Secondly, the angels have disappeared for the most part, but there can be a little bit of angel in every player, can't there? If you see someone oorp don't whore them because you can, try to help them. I see a lot more rules lawyering than helping.

Even without an angel there can be a server message "If you are new ask"

Thirdly, and I think more importantly, fix the rules. The rules are poorly written and full of unwritten rules that a newbie has no exposure to, and some stuff seems to conflict. That will go a long way as well.

Lastly, keep a "hall of shame". I know that trial by forums is frowned upon, but a public reservoir of bad and oorp players would go a long way toward actually tracking and fixing the problem players, assuming the people here can remain mature enough in how they interact with these players and try to mold them.

I have more suggestions as well, but honestly I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here. It's agree with the faction leaders or be a whore or a troll here.

[sovereign]

Well, the ID is more like dog than boba, boba is more a merc ID.

One problem is that all those BH BC's were bought with traders, those traders have a list of the pirates that pirated them when they were in a transport and the pirate was in a bomber or GB, so from that perspective there is not much difference between going after a trader with a GB or going after a GB with a BC.

I don't think any BHG will work to help this either, why would an indie give up his BC for a fighter to join a faction, when there really would be no benefits?

And especially when these BH BC's are flying them because they were pvp whored out of flying for the outcasts or other clans?

There is a very good reason for people to give up the Battlecruisers. I was with a group of RHA pirating in Sigma-13 and New Berlin awhile back, and after awhile we got the inevitable tide of BHG BCs.

They died. All of them. No hope, we rarely lost shields. Our fighters and bombers tore them apart.

Then, a pair of BHG bombers came up. We were hard pressed to not die for a solid twenty minutes, until I landed a lucky supernova and killed one of them.

So, against three battlecruisers, a battleship, and a pair of gunboats coming at us all at once, we didn't lose shields, yet against a pair of bombers we could have lost quite easily.

Now imagine if the capital ship fleet would have been flying all fighters and bombers- what would have happened? We would have fought and easily lost, as opposed to massacre them.

Most pirates fly VHFs and bombers (GBs too, though not as often), not large capital ships. For one thing, you cannot pirate in large ships. Also, a pair of bombers is far more effective at killing anything than that same pair of battlecruisers- and I've never seen a BHG have problems getting a crew together.

To top it off, if the players of the battlecruisers in question have respect for the pirates they fight, they will sooner or later realize that the pirates don't like fighting large ships, even if its a guaranteed win. In the example I gave, the bomber fight was far more fun and exhilarating than the massacre we inflicted upon the capital ships. So, not only do the BHG gain a better chance of winning, but they are also more sportsmanlike. Good on all sides, if they take the time to realize this.

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[Athenian]

First off, give people somewhere to go with cap ships (because they are going to get them) where they can't do a lot of harm.

Another server that is Pvp or Connecticutt.

I see a lot more rules lawyering than helping

Then stop posting and get in-game and get helping.

there can be a server message "If you are new ask"

No one needs to be told that.

a public reservoir of bad and oorp players would go a long way toward actually tracking and fixing the problem players

Gee the only people really committed to good Rp do that EVERY day on the forums in the message dumps. Go read.

Consider yourself trolled. Not nice is it?

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Blodo]

The indies are bigger than the clans, all they need is a reason to band together to make things far worse than they are now. Your "we can pvp whore you because we have more people" is providing them that. It's already happening. Soon faction pirates will be facing multiple BH BC's at once while lawful factions will get swarmed with huntresses and OC dessies.

This is already happening, but that's not to say that you are right. The point is: it is up to the factions in the end to set things right, like it or not. The factions are in contact with the forum community, they are the ones pushing for RP and good fun and the ones who will set the example to the indies. Humans are a social creature, they will attempt to follow the group that fits their ideas the most. Just look at Corsairs and all their factions; a lot of indies cooperate with them and listen to them because the Corsair factions set an example with their fighter aces and RP among other things. Now picture Omicron Gamma without factions and just indies in caps. Whomever new shows up there, it is clear to them immediately that they have nothing to look for in a fighter down there. You should thank the factions for playing their part.

Know also that there are bad apples in every apple basket, all you can do is throw these away or they will just move from affiliation to affiliation until they find one that isn't or can't be represented by a faction and has the largest amount of access to everywhere without being sanctioned (BHG). Why do you think no other faction with the exception of Corsairs has a capship concentration rivalling the BHG? Other factions that are quite visible are roleplaying centralisation, Corsairs and BHG are by their very nature quite decentralised hence it's hardest for them to accomplish much.

As to the misconception that RM are against all indies: it's absolute gobsh*te. RM have nothing against indies that do their roleplay homework in Rheinland. On the forums you will only see the heavy handed crackdowns, but try delving into it to see how ridiculous it is (a fleet of three Rheinland Battleships destroying everything they didn't like?) before they do something with the mess. It's one of the most visible examples of how faction control helps: Rheinland is (or rather was till 2 weeks ago, RM is a bit inactive now) RP land nowadays with both awesome lawfuls and awesome unlawfuls. Without RM what you would see is a mess of indies in Rheinland Battleships and Cruisers, because that's what they all want to fly. With their example set: voila, Rheinland is mostly OORP free.

Also the next time you see three pirate caps with no fighter support in Rheinland, send me a message and give me a few minutes. If they are Corsairs, the bomber wing will quickly deal with it. If Hessians (which would be surprising to me let me tell you, but if) they can be quickly ordered back to Omega's to come help us fight Corsairs.