(07-25-2018, 09:20 PM)PRJKTLRD Wrote: Sadly, us vets, we find ourselves surrounded by this.. new form of Discovery where, simply things are done differently, more kindly. And if they cannot defeat you, they will gank you. If they cannot gank you because they are alone, they will simply ignore you. There's no more joyful fair fights and duels, and saying to each other //gf after a fight. (and the irony is children calling us bittervets, but they are ones either ignoring your "gf" or telling you "gg" or in most miserable situations, spamming you with CD in a gunso duel in Connecticut)
This is something that needs only a simple explanation. Things change... example.
Apple computers, cheap systems that come with the necessities needed for every day computing and tasks, including a great warranty system for their customers... Boy, its been a long time since the launch of the first Macintosh.
Expensive Systems, lots of fancy bits like 5k retina displays that do a hell of a lot more than your average computer systems and Apple-care warranty that shafts its customers up the backside. Maybe thats why most people in this world now use Windows PC's... Its not for everyone to stick on one brand because its not for their tastes and every day uses.
The players are no way exempted from this example, just because your "vets" had one way of playing the game, doesn't mean that everyone else needs to follow suit. And to keep this player base active? Some things have to change. Maybe the go with or against your tastes.
Yeah, that is what I was explaining and how we should adapt with it and move on.
I also said how it is alright in case of Amalfi Directorate to be what they are, to be a faction that has no primary goal to not be PVP oriented group, and defend Outcast space whenever needed.
That is because, Outcasts or Corsairs, are mini houses and they have various aspects of societies. There's nothing wrong with a family being oriented on a trade and smuggle, they of course have some dose of security wings, like any cartel.
However without this, exact, militaristic faction, Outcasts are doomed. They need a faction like this.
<"From Darkness, lead me to Light. From Ignorance, to Truth. From Death, to Immortality.">
(07-26-2018, 03:51 AM)Geoffacake Wrote: As I recount, raids like this are a large amount of variables. While they might cause an action-trigger of people instantly logging on, I've said to many members within the BDM that constantly ping me to log on that I don't have the same attitude or availability that I used to. I'm studying for University ahead of schedule, while also working jobs. I'm the main man of diplomacy that comes to handling everything the faction does, I also have to be the main point of communication between other people. I can't continue to have the same drive of just logging in to fight people like its a necessity. When I've returned from IRL-work, just bombed 5 long winded forum posts, discussed in development chats or let alone done 3 hours of Dev-work on sound files and experimentation, the last thing I really want to do is have possibly 2 hours locked in a combat fight with nothing to gain in return and trade off the chance to play a game, watch a film or best of all get some sleep. I get why people within AD didn't log, and thats because most of them either aim for the Roleplay that can be done within their factions, currently don't have the feeling to log on for that reason or were just completely occupied by something else. Yes, they do have a duty to log on, but not to satisfy YOUR DESIRE for competition, thats like asking someone "Hey, do you mind being my kick-bag for a moment? It'll only be an hour." Doesn't matter if you win or lose in this fight, you're complaining that they weren't able to do something they don't enjoy so you could have fun yourselves.
No one is arguing this or criticising AD| over this though. Discovery isn't an obligation that people have to put above everything else. If I'm busy, or have things pre-planned, or I'm tired after a long day, there's no guarantee I'm going to drop what I'm doing to raid.
What people are critiquing is the attitude of "raids are stupid, we're not going to bother, and if people PM us we're going to say they shouldn't bother and we're going to make assumptions about those people too".
Questions:
WIll AD| never raid Corsair space then?
If you're logged into Alpha for reasons, and a Corsair comes to interact, will you just log off?
What will you do to create activity if not through PvP?
(07-25-2018, 09:08 PM)Sciamach Wrote: It wouldn't make sense for the Unioners to be in Alaska, so don't do it.
*Rapidly deletes the screenshot of the seven Unioner caps around Planet Anchorage in commemoration of when I moved to IRL Anchorage and got really drunk.*
Good explaination though, Scourge. I'm satisfied with what I'm reading.
THE SYNDIC LEAGUES
(A co-operative of Rheinland's Shipping Unions, retired from a life of piracy.)
Nomads raiding Alaska and Liberty logging a counterforce would make sense though, just saying. In a lot of these systems, hostile NPCs spawn. It's an indication of raids.
I can see why a faction would want to avoid home system raids, sitting ontop of/shooting NPC home system assets is a very lolwatty attitude of trying to get the opposing side to log. Raids into near home territories make a ton more sense and even better communicating with the other side to arrange encounters and raids ect would be even better.
Edit:
Looks like there might be some confusion, by home systems I mean like Rho for Core| or Chugoku for Dragons. Lawful home systems such as NL,NT,NB,NY and IDF are all fair game due to easy trsdelane access
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There's a distinction between lore and what happens ingame. In lore yes, home system raids are unrealistic, but are they any less realistic than green stars, planets the size of a dreadnought, Hessians gathering 25 battleships they don't have in lore, smugglers and unlawful capital ships using lanes, jump gates, passing near lawful planets? I'm just skimming the surface with many "unrealistic" actions and mechanics we have in Discovery that make the distinction between lore and what's in the game itself. Not acknowledging a home system raid is like refusing to do a cardamine run by using lanes or gates, because both make no sense "realistically". Will you do that and have a 1 hour route from Alpha to New York so that trading oxygen on a lawful ID turns out to net a bigger profit? I highly doubt it.
The game doesn't have to be 100% realistic in order for us to enjoy it. Maybe, just maybe taking something as raids less seriously would benefit everyone. If you are going for officialdom but don't plan to have a fight on rare occasions Corsairs visit you (when you're available, not talking about when you're not around) on the premise of "it's unrealistic" then look no further than the mirror, because everyone does something "unrealistic". You can adapt and accept it, or keep refusing to log when you could've. Not saying "log every time", but if you're available, why not take the opportunity for activity?
(07-26-2018, 03:51 AM)Geoffacake Wrote: To: AD|
Right now, I do like the route AD| Is taking within the Outcast community, while its very different to the conglomerate of Don's within the National Council, their concept of a highly trained "Modern Militarised Militia" is quite appreciated and a step taken to develop on the outcasts military capability rather than their usual choice of "Cardamine, Piracy and Nomad worship". Thumbs up from me, but take it with a pinch of salt as I'm personally close to the people taking leading strides within the faction (memes aside). But theres this distaste that hangs around in my mouth, while I get that AD| is a militarised unit, what I would like to see is some sort of History (That isn't from the Cross) that mainly focuses the evolution of how it went from a cardinal guard society, to a future-modern day marching soldier-uniformed "Army". Any sort of teaching or training, maybe in the future with your closer ties to two certain houses you'd be able to obtain training from advisers. Because right now, the conflict history with the Outcasts and its enemies haven't been direct military offences but more like "passing by in the ghetto space-neighbourhood and pulling the gun when they see rival gangs."
Another thing is the groups "Finances" so to speak, is it something more than the Cardamine trade? I'd be quite interested to look into it, but I wouldn't mind if its still the Orange-Grass route. I'll shrug it off with a little disappointment but I guess the Maltese in general have nothing else going for them apart from that. Maybe thats a goal in the future you should focus on...? I know I tried that.
The writeup in the OP is very much a work-in progress that will evolve and grow as time goes on and the faction develops. I'll certainly take your first points there under advisement and spam you on discord the moment we post an update addressing those issues~<3
As for our finances: this is actually a topic touched upon here and here. TL;DR for those of you like me that are incredibly busy(lazy): the Sicily project took most of the factions inRP finances for a time to fund, and was a brief topic of internal debate, though not a written one. All of that - for a converted cruiser, mind- was included to emphasize that, while the AD is itself profitable in it's own business endeavors, it's still a relatively small faction with limited resources.
This briefly touches upon something else the infopage needs further emphasis towards: the idea that our fleet and relative size is fixed. Battlegroup Amalfi - the capital fleet available to AD with the logo I am entirely too proud of - isn't any more (capital-wise) than a single busted-up Ranseur, a single Sarissa, the Misericorde, and then a strike-wing of 4 Storta destroyers operating with minimal crews. That's it, for the time being, those are the only caps we have, and we've had to tell recruits and other people wanting to fly their own caps that we have 0 intention of expanding on it for the time being, just to keep the scale of the faction in check. That was one of the major sticking points of the Cross was that it was just written as being entirely too powerful with too many resources with no explanation. It's a trope, and simply was just poor writing, so we took every measure we could to ensure there wasn't a repeat of that this time.
Beyond that, most of the other ships we operate are either freighters or light-fighters, as a means of highlighting that alot of our combat ships are meant for scouting, recon, and fast-attack roles. We felt this was a good fit, as not only does it emphasize that Amalfi is first, an Intelligence-gathering organization that lorewise does it's best to avoid direct confrontation unless absolutely necessary, but also highlights our financial situation a bit more, as logically lighter craft would be cheaper to operate and maintain than their heavier counterparts.
Finally: we've had no shortage of ability to capitalize on the Cryo-organism market since that lovely little addition to the game (a tiny field, out in the middle of nowhere, implemented with no infocard while the corsairs get their own mining planet, friendly reminder), so it's entirely possible we'll front some effort towards including that within the lore page at some point. It's simply been a matter of time thusfar.
(07-26-2018, 01:37 PM)Antonio Wrote: The game doesn't have to be 100% realistic in order for us to enjoy it. Maybe, just maybe taking something as raids less seriously would benefit everyone. If you are going for officialdom but don't plan to have a fight on rare occasions Corsairs visit you (when you're available, not talking about when you're not around) on the premise of "it's unrealistic" then look no further than the mirror, because everyone does something "unrealistic". You can adapt and accept it, or keep refusing to log when you could've. Not saying "log every time", but if you're available, why not take the opportunity for activity?
We've had 0 problems generating our own activity since the inception of the faction so, I wouldn't worry too much on that front if I were you.
And while I'm not expecting 100% realism (not yet anyway, not until the device is finished), players and factions should always be making strides towards making things as believable and logical as possible. That's what Roleplaying is; acting and behaving in a way that is believable or as close to analogous to reality as possible. Failure to make even a modicum of effort towards that is incredibly easy to spot from a billion miles away. It's those individuals we take umbrage with, and those people we choose not to waste our time on.
The long and short of it is: if someone is putting forth effort to roleplay their character/faction/ship, we notice, and we have 0 issue interacting with them. When certain specific individuals don't even bother trying to RP on the RP server, is when we flip and burn hard for the nearest base and go find some other interaction to have. So far it's worked out well for us in terms of RP and activity, two points you claim would be things in detriment as a result of this mode of behavior so; I fail to see the downside. If time goes on and were proven wrong, then we're proven wrong ; we'll address that issue when that time comes. Given your user title is literally "PVP = RP", I dont expect you to agree with me on that sentiment but thusfar it's not looking like its a problem we'll have on our horizon for a while.
Thanks for your input, all of you ~<3
[ sci·am·ach ]
/sīˈamək/
A simple, angry man casually working his way through life on a personal quest to acquire copious amounts of street cred.
I have not yet posted in this thread and it's high time to do so, now that the mudslinging of the past few days is having a chance to die down.
Some background as to why:
I have been asked in voice chats and PMs what exactly Amalfi is without having to read Scourge's gigantic description page several times over the past few days, and I haven't been able to explain it very well for a variety of reasons including muscle relaxers from a back injury so I will instead write down a TL;DR version here. It might also answer some legitimate questions that have been posed in this thread by people completely unfamiliar with this style of Outcast roleplay.
Amalfi Directorate assumes a few things in Outcast society. First, that the actual power in government, such as it is, will always revolve around the production and export of Cardamine. That's a given, that's how it's always been. Second, it assumes that this power would be coalesced into a network of familial cartels, influential names and pedigrees that stretch back to the foundation of Malta herself, and that this power would be so entrenched as to create a nation of city states based around these mega plantations. Again, nothing new here; the Council of Dons as a concept dates back as far as I can read on the forums, and nobody disputes that there would always be a Council of Dons, even if that council wasn't always in actual power (and that removing power from them would cause events up to and including civil war, see Contari Lance vs. 101st, see Cross history of contention and the various groups that rose up during that time to try and return to a more traditional style of Outcast roleplay.) Finally, that Outcast growth as a population, the actual Hispania remnants, is glacially slow. This is a lore bit dating to vanilla, so naturally we assume it to still be true.
Why am I pointing all of this out? Malta's infocard alone says that the population there is, and I quote the text directly:
Quote:Malta's population at the last planetary census in 816 A.S. stood at roughly 470 million, with an estimated 2 million other Outcasts spread across Sirius in various capacities.
Fair and good, so why does this matter to our faction so much? Because the original population of the Hispania was unknowable, and it was further split between, in lore, both Outcasts, Corsairs, and a much smaller contingent of Coalition spies and saboteurs. It most certainly was not, however, even a small fraction of that comparatively gargantuan number, and given the Maltese lack of ability to barely sustain their original numbers, much less add new ones, where in the world did the difference come from?
Four hundred seventy million. Plus another two million abroad. Slaves? You mean to say a few hundred thousand people at best are able to control quite literally hundreds of millions of slaves in forced labor? That when life is so precious to them, and so irreplaceable, that they would saddle up in their own fighters and ships and go out to fight the many wars of Malta on a daily basis for fear of arming these slaves? Or do they trust those slaves to support the economy of Malta aboard on their own volition? None of this makes any sense and would certainly not last 800 years without a major upset in power, armed revolts, etc. No slaver nation has ever managed it in the history of Earth, even with the benefit of highly additive drugs.
So then, if these statements can't make sense, where then do these numbers come from?
It is our opinion and belief that there must instead be a sustainable means of growth for Malta, a middle class, comprised of freed slaves and other cardimine addicts that have through various means joined the source of the drug that they now depend on to survive. The Slaves commodity infocard says this:
Quote:Many slaves were previously poor and unemployed House citizens sold into slavery by deceit, and over time they usually integrate into new environments, gain trust from fellow pirates and finally win their freedom.
and this:
Quote:Many slaves were previously poor and unemployed House citizens sold into slavery by deceit, and over time they usually integrate into new environments, gain trust from fellow pirates and finally win their freedom.
The Outcasts are neither poor nor have any demonstrated trouble shipping in materials they need, thanks to their own efforts and the Junkers in vanilla lore. They are, in RP, one of the richest single factions in Sirius.
Given enough time, these people, from all walks of life, would no longer identify themselves as Bretonian, or Kusarian, or Libertonian, but instead Maltese, unified through cardamine, and working to further the goals of the nation that brought them in. They wouldn't have the luxury; going back means death or imprisonment. Slavery, therefore, is not a means of creating a work force, it's a means of reproduction. Assimilation, willingly or handled by the slave traders, through cardamine.
Okay, so where does Amalfi fit in?
The above statements all suggest that there must be a very large, millions strong, lower to upper middle class in Maltese society. Technicians, pilots, managers, spies, miners...the list goes on, that are not members of the mega cartel families. Over time their numbers would be joined also by disgraced or destitute individuals and/or families from the cartels who could no longer maintain their place on the Council of Dons. Given the already demonstrated disjointed nature of Outcast government, the rest as they say is history: a member of the former Crimson Cross and his lackeys formed a new powerbase away from the politics of Malta (ideally none of our ships are supposed to be even stored in Omicron Alpha; our shareds all use Venice in Omicron Tau or Ruiz in Beta as staging points to reflect this in game) comprised of this very diverse middle class. In game and in practice this gives us the roleplay freedom, even demands, that we use all sorts of non-traditional ships, weapons and tactics, engage in shady commerce, mine Cryo Organisms, try to improve relations with Bretonia and Rheinland through non-illegal commerce, and generally further the Outcast cause. There have been many pushes over the years to try to legitimize Malta as a new House within Sirius, initiatives that have gained us a neutral no-dock status with Bretonia to name an example of this.
Activity wise, this flexibility means we can quite freely do whatever we want as long as it fits the lore. Not a PvP ace? That's okay, we've got a Dromedary and a stack of mining lasers lined up for you. Want to fly a Surveyor with a maxim chaingun and swatter mines? We get 90% and have an in-lore focus on mining cryos for legitimate legal profit, make it happen! Want to do intel stuff? We heavily encourage flying ships with 400 m/s or better cruise speeds so that you can run wherever you want, scan whatever you want, and fly something interesting and rare while you're at it. We have maybe two VHFs in the entire faction.
Amalfi can smuggle, trade, mine, raid Knossos with a swarm of LFs and be back to home base in time for afternoon (read: super late night because lol EST) tea.
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