=LSF= Comments processing center (Feedback)

[Kauket]

Multiples IFFs for official factions break the rules. I kind of wish the Staff would just mellow out about that and allow it, since it could lead to a lot of interesting RP opportunities.

Unofficial factions can have two IFFs but official factions can't. It's whack.

No, the rule applies to all factions.

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[Lythrilux]

That's still lame. A small, very easy change in the rules would greatly enhance roleplay.

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[GrnRaptor]

Treaty of Curacao
of 821 AS

Clause 2: Free Trade is to be fully open between Liberty, Bretonia, and the Crayter Republic. Any act considered to represent an Obstruction to Free Trade shall be considered a criminal offense in the eyes of Liberty and Bretonia. Obstruction to Free Trade shall carry an attached fine of two hundred thousand credits per offense, collectable by any lawful agent of the Liberty, Bretonia, or Crayter Republic Government, payable to the government of each nation.

Here you go > link.

It seems to me that this is the main stickling point. What LSF did was technically not wrong, though in bad taste.
It's the decision of the Republic of Liberty which is an obvious violation of the Treaty of Curacao that has gotten people upset.
If CR as a whole, including clearly civilian vessels designated as such, are effectively banned from Liberty, that openly goes against "Free Trade is to be fully open between Liberty, Bretonia, and the Crayter Republic."

Libgov should consider either clarifying who they consider "foreign nonallied military", or acknowledge that they are scrapping the treaty.

You're misunderstanding what the Treaty of Curacao's free trade clause is about. It's about not stopping trade through Magellan/Cortez, not granting everyone access to everything. LibLaw takes precedence inside Liberty, and if LibGov says that Crayter ships are considered military vessels (which they have here and here), then LibLaw in Liberty says no to CR transports until that stance is changed. With the IFF issue, which was apparently the primary reason this started, resolved, then an adjustment to that stance is both reasonable and feasible. =CR= continuing to push into Liberty with ships that they've expressly been told that they're not to do at current however is also not acceptable.

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[Reeves]

You're misunderstanding what the Treaty of Curacao's free trade clause is about. It's about not stopping trade through Magellan/Cortez, not granting everyone access to everything. LibLaw takes precedence inside Liberty, and if LibGov says that Crayter ships are considered military vessels (which they have here and here), then LibLaw in Liberty says no to CR transports until that stance is changed. With the IFF issue, which was apparently the primary reason this started, resolved, then an adjustment to that stance is both reasonable and feasible. =CR= continuing to push into Liberty with ships that they've expressly been told that they're not to do at current however is also not acceptable.

I said the exact same thing regarding the jurisdiction clause yesterday, but the real issue is that people believe that the treaty extends into the territory of both houses and thus grants full and free trade as is expressed in the treaty. What needs to happen is that people need to stop whinging in this thread and petition lib-gov to amend the treaty with a predefined jurisdiction for which all provisions will be binding upon. Once that's done this entire issue goes out the window because the treaty will apply to its two cited systems and house laws will be applicable whereever else that's appropriate.

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On indefinite hiatus because the current state of gameplay sucks - ping me over discord if replies are needed

[Thyrzul]

petition lib-gov to amend the treaty with a predefined jurisdiction for which all provisions will be binding upon. Once that's done this entire issue goes out the window because the treaty will apply to its two cited systems and house laws will be applicable whereever else that's appropriate.

Wouldn't that require a functional LibGov in the first place? Seeing how nothing happened in regards to remedying this issue in almost three months, I don't have too high hopes for that. And what happens until then? CR ships remain outlawed from Liberty unless there's an official faction member present willing to hold their hand while they do their business?



Contrary to what some said before me, this can easily be interpreted as an LSF issue, not a LibGov issue, justifying feedback present in this thread, not anywhere else. Why?

Relevant laws did not change for long. Diplomacy between Liberty and Crayter did not change for long. Crayter functioned with either one or two IFFs without prompting incidents, for long, before either this one, or the one three months ago. What did change then?

Apparently law enforcement practice, leaning more towards the letter of the law than the spirit of the law, ignoring potential consequences, diplomatic relations, and shrugging off responsibility to LibGov and the faulty laws of the Republic without haste. "We've just enforced the laws to our best interpretation." That interpretation certainly changed, and certainly not for the better.

For what? Some pixel cash or blue messages?

That's why you've got this feedback here. Do with it whatever you want.

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[Shady.Stihl.Technician]

When you do things like this after killing a civilian Crayterian transport...
It's almost as if you're trying to incite a war.
No less than 3 LSF ships in Crayterian space?
Well, then.

[Sciamach]

So I'm not involved in this: I've been dealing with mental health and life crap the past month or so; but based on what I've been told by some people in a VC:

They were literally only there because someone jumped them, and they then used that opportunity to purchase engines. You didn't even see them inRP - the only evidence you have for them being there is a screenshot of the playerlist. They entered a public border system to get to a public freelancer station, and were present in said border system for all of 7 minues. Big whoop. They're allowed.

What precisely is the issue here?

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[ sci·am·ach ]
/sīˈamək/

A simple, angry man casually working his way through life on a personal quest to acquire copious amounts of street cred.

[Shady.Stihl.Technician]

So I'm not involved in this: I've been dealing with mental health and life crap the past month or so; but based on what I've been told by some people in a VC:

They were literally only there because someone jumped them, and they then used that opportunity to purchase engines. You didn't even see them inRP - the only evidence you have for them being there is a screenshot of the playerlist. They entered a public border system to get to a public freelancer station, and were present in said border system for all of 7 minues. Big whoop. They're allowed.

What precisely is the issue here?

Well if that's how it really was, then yeah, there'd be no issue.
That much is undeniable.

Edit: I probably shoulda thought about it a bit more.

[Karst]

You're misunderstanding what the Treaty of Curacao's free trade clause is about. It's about not stopping trade through Magellan/Cortez, not granting everyone access to everything. LibLaw takes precedence inside Liberty, and if LibGov says that Crayter ships are considered military vessels (which they have here and here), then LibLaw in Liberty says no to CR transports until that stance is changed. With the IFF issue, which was apparently the primary reason this started, resolved, then an adjustment to that stance is both reasonable and feasible. =CR= continuing to push into Liberty with ships that they've expressly been told that they're not to do at current however is also not acceptable.

There's no possible way to interpret the treaty this way. "Free Trade is to be fully open between Liberty, Bretonia, and the Crayter Republic" means it is to be open between those entities, if it was supposed to mean Magellan and Cortez only, that line would state so.

Then again this is Libgov we're talking about, an entity which has rightfully earned a terrible reputation. The fact that you're attempting to deliberately misinterpret this agreement to justify screwing people in a situation that can really only be described as griefing isn't likely to improve people's opinions of the house.

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[SnakThree]

You're misunderstanding what the Treaty of Curacao's free trade clause is about. It's about not stopping trade through Magellan/Cortez, not granting everyone access to everything. LibLaw takes precedence inside Liberty, and if LibGov says that Crayter ships are considered military vessels (which they have here and here), then LibLaw in Liberty says no to CR transports until that stance is changed. With the IFF issue, which was apparently the primary reason this started, resolved, then an adjustment to that stance is both reasonable and feasible. =CR= continuing to push into Liberty with ships that they've expressly been told that they're not to do at current however is also not acceptable.

There's no possible way to interpret the treaty this way. "Free Trade is to be fully open between Liberty, Bretonia, and the Crayter Republic" means it is to be open between those entities, if it was supposed to mean Magellan and Cortez only, that line would state so.

Then again this is Libgov we're talking about, an entity which has rightfully earned a terrible reputation. The fact that you're attempting to deliberately misinterpret this agreement to justify screwing people in a situation that can really only be described as griefing isn't likely to improve people's opinions of the house.

Tell about the free trade thing to RheinGov and their ban on Universal Shipping transporting White Boxes.

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