Fix Gunboat Turrets

[Reddy]

2. Hard to master - they're very easy to learn, but mastering stuff like perfectly managing range on the fastest-paced cap class will naturally draw people away from it. One mistake can mean an instakill or all your regens gone, and it can happen in a split second. I've no doubt you haven't mastered them or this thread wouldn't exist in the first place.

Bringing mastery into a balance discussion doesn't seem terribly useful to mention to me. If your balance philosophy is to consider a ship class based on the best of its userbase, the average joe (and below) players are going to struggle a lot with it. That isn't to say powerful ships shouldn't come with a little more difficulty or responsibility, but just for accessibility's sake it's better to judge all ship classes by what a typical player is capable of with a few rounds of practice.

you balance ships according to how it can't be exploited by the best. if you balance it with having the 'average joe' in mind then then the best will use the broken ship to roflstomp every average player into oblivion.

---

[Durandal]

I largely agree that gunboats could use more variety/versatility but I wouldn't call them weak in their current state. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to removing the spread but that would essentially make them more powerful versus snubs and less powerful versus caps (since either their DPS or range would need to get a heavy hit to compensate).

One thing I'd like to do at some point is rework Solaris for all classes. for a long time Solaris has been based on dealing high refire high projectile speed damage at the cost of efficiency and range. Personally I'm not sure the efficiency nerf is necessary at all and would actually like to try experimenting with ammo based Solaris. Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch over this I'm literally talking about ammo in the tens of thousands. Not something you'd be likely to run out of except in very unique scenarios such as two GBs versus a battleship, etc.

[JorgeRyan]

life-hack: equip escopeta's onto your gunboats turret mounts for a shotgun weapon ;3

---

Feedback and comm bumping here

[Antonio]

2. Hard to master - they're very easy to learn, but mastering stuff like perfectly managing range on the fastest-paced cap class will naturally draw people away from it. One mistake can mean an instakill or all your regens gone, and it can happen in a split second. I've no doubt you haven't mastered them or this thread wouldn't exist in the first place.

Bringing mastery into a balance discussion doesn't seem terribly useful to mention to me. If your balance philosophy is to consider a ship class based on the best of its userbase, the average joe (and below) players are going to struggle a lot with it. That isn't to say powerful ships shouldn't come with a little more difficulty or responsibility, but just for accessibility's sake it's better to judge all ship classes by what a typical player is capable of with a few rounds of practice.

That paragraph was related to me explaining why they’re the least popular cap class and not enjoyable to fly after a while for me. I mastered them, I don’t have the problem, but someone trying to get into flying gunboats all the time will find it a chore. The first reason is really the main one - it’s just too repetitive and one-dimensional. It has nothing to do with actual balance, I wrote already that balance-wise they’re strong. It’s about fun.

[Titan*]

afaik you are not balance dev and its mostly up to balance devs right? Why do you even bother when there is no one that can implement these stuff. I made that mistkae once better to not waste time

That's a pretty pessimistic stance. This mod is built on player ideas, at one point the same kind of discussion had to happen for the mining system, sci data system, cap weapon balance, etc.

i was saying that to @eigos.

[TLI-Inferno]

I largely agree that gunboats could use more variety/versatility but I wouldn't call them weak in their current state. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to removing the spread but that would essentially make them more powerful versus snubs and less powerful versus caps (since either their DPS or range would need to get a heavy hit to compensate).

Considering the drastic buff that snub guns have gotten over the years, GB guns aren't actually OP DPS-wise. If their spread was removed, I think a mere 5% DPS nerf (roughly 200 across the board) would be fine. Since gunboats were meant for defending caps against snubs, it would make sense for their primaries to be better against snubs, anyway. A gunboat pilot seeking to restore his usefulness against capital ships could balance this out with his heavy slots.

One thing I'd like to do at some point is rework Solaris for all classes. for a long time Solaris has been based on dealing high refire high projectile speed damage at the cost of efficiency and range. Personally I'm not sure the efficiency nerf is necessary at all and would actually like to try experimenting with ammo based Solaris. Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch over this I'm literally talking about ammo in the tens of thousands. Not something you'd be likely to run out of except in very unique scenarios such as two GBs versus a battleship, etc.

I don't think ammo-based solaris is necessary. If the ammo is high enough, it would not pose a balance change 99% of the time, while being extremely annoying when it runs out, for no reason. If it's lower, it would simply make them unusable. Either way, it wouldn't work well for balancing.

I think the efficiency nerf works well to ensure that the solaris are less effective against capital ships. It doesn't prevent you from being able to fire them every time a snub is close, but it does make it harder to maintain an unceasing firing of all weapons, which is necessary while turret-steering around a capital ship. I think Solaris is fine as is; I use them often. I think that reducing their energy cost might make them overpowered, as this would enable more frequent use of Battle Razors.