This has been something that's ticked me off ever since I started here, but seeing two bounty hunter battleships in the order guard system this week has pushed it over the edge. Things need to be changed, and it needs to happen as soon as the next mod version is released.
Changes:
1. Battleship Licenses
Battleship licenses need to be removed from all vendors and made available by admin approval only, like terrorist and specialty ID's (nomads,wild,etc). Battleships should only be given to player faction leaders, or experienced players who have proven their worth here - like Gafwmn, Isabelle Kaitlyn, and Au'rora (eternal). These players have shown that they have extremely good RP ability, and follow the rules and their zone of influence. The same cannot be said for 90% of the people out there using capships right now.
Independent players wishing to purchase battleships should be required to appeal to their player faction leader if one is available (for example, anyone wanting an outcast battleship/dreadnaught needs to talk to epyon). If there is no player faction for the battleship you want, you should be required to appeal directly to the admins by forum here, and only given the license after player feedback has been given supporting your reasons for using the ship.
2. Battlecruisers
battlecruisers are currently the most exploited capship in the mod. People can get them for fairly cheap, without having to buy a battleship license, and a lot of RP enforced rules dont restrict battlecruisers (like the battleship ban in liberty). Personally I hate these things, they're not balanced at all compared to the other ship classes, and have the best of both worlds (cruisers and battleships).
I dont care if battlecruisers keep the 'battlecruiser' designation - but they need to be nerfed. Reduce their manuverability to battleship levels. I would prefer them having all class 10 turret hardpoints removed, but that would unfortunately force a player wipe so it cant be done.
If possible, reducing battlecruisers to a standard cruiser power core would work well, making those class 10 turrets really drain your energy.
3. Guard Systems
All ships of cruiser level or higher should be available for purchase only in faction guard systems. This requires players to have a little better rep with the faction that sells these ships - and also requires players to ask permission to enter the system and use the ship from the player faction that owns that guard system (i.e. they'd be 'forced' to register the ship, any players who enter the system and purchase the ship without asking could be considered kill on sight for stealing an advanced and expensive vessel).
Right now it is simply too easy for any new player to the server to trade for a week and get a capship without knowing a thing about the rules, RP, or their faction restrictions. You see it every single day on the server and very little is done about it, as no server rules directly restrict that behavior.
4. Bombers
Someone is bound to come up with "but bombers are more powerful than caps!"
They'd be right, bombers -are- more powerful. Right now bombers are the single most overpowered ship type in the mod, with more firepower capability through the supernova than any other ship. Most bombers also have enough agility and firepower to take on fighter class ships, making them the best all-around pvp vessels. They're also not all that expensive.
The easiest solution, as stated by jinx I believe, is to reduce or remove the strafe speed on bomber craft. If they cant strafe, it's much harder for them to avoid fire from enemy fighters. Strafing isnt as crucial for a bomber when fighting capships - all you have to do is get in close and engine kill to fly circles around the battleship, and it wont be able to target you in turret view.
Again, it'd be best if the weapon hardpoints could be altered, but that cant be done without a player wipe so the next best thing is removing strafe ability.
5. OORP Trade routes
one of the main reasons players can get such quick access to capships and other expensive items here is the existence of trade routes which, quite frankly, shouldnt exist. There are two routes in particular I'm concerned with:
1. The Cardamine smugglers in order space. The route for these guys is texas -> new york -> alaska -> omicron minor -> omicron 100 -> omicron major -> omicron 90 -> omicron alpha, then back. In order for a smuggler (who must have some sort of relation to outcasts to get cardamine) to run this route, he must pass through two of the most heavily guarded systems in the game according to RP - alaska (which most people shouldnt even be able to get into), and omicron 100 - the order guard system.
Further, the player must pass through two nomad systems to make the route, and that isnt something your average trader or smuggler is likely to put himself through.
In order to fix this route:
-Remove the omicron major to omicron 90 jump hole in the omicron major system.
The order really doesnt need a way to get into outcast space, and that's all that the jump hole in question would otherwise be used for. Keepers can travel directly from 99 to iota to get around the removal of that jump hole as well.
2. The diamond/niobium route, which I'm less familiar with, travels from new berlin to kyushu (I think). This route uses mostly jump holes which no lawful trader should be going through. It also passes through chugoku, the blood dragon home system, and that system is supposed to be kept hidden - how is it all these traders know about it?
In order to fix this route:
-Remove the sigma-13/new berlin jump holes.
This was brought up before, and I believe it was the bundschuh or red hessians who had a problem with it, as they use that jump hole to get between some of their systems (frankfurt and someplace else I believe, ill need input on this one). The solution they came up with was to put a jump hole for them from frankfurt to either new berlin or sigma 13, I cant remember which.
6. Guard system NPC's
The main reason traders and smugglers get through guard systems so easily is the fact that they use trains/advanced trains, which are nearly impossible to stop via standard cruise disruptors.
Solution: Give guard system NPC's train cruise disruptors, allowing them to stop these vessels.
---
Feedback on these suggestions is welcome, as well as other suggestions that might help solve the issue.
Also, before anyone goes on a Faction Vs. Indie rant, -ALL- of my characters are independents, and I'm firmly against joining factions. That doesnt mean that there shouldnt be more restrictions on ships by factions however. Factions have proven themselves through the sacrafice of a large amount of credits, a credible RP background, and good conduct by their players - they've been approved and made official by admins, which has to say something - and it says that they know what they're doing, or at least the faction leaders do.
However, I can see many Battleship and Battlecruiser owners being annoyed by this post. Most independents will be further pushed towards factionalism, and not only that give the admins EVEN MORE work? They have enough to do as it is.
OORP trade routes I despise, finish them for good. Come on, this is RP not POWER TRADING server.
Guard NPC's with Train Disruptors? Sweet. Murder for any newbies and capitals will have less chance, kinda plus plus.
I also concur with your post although i think a bombers turning speed should be changed instead of its strafing ability. When ever i attack a cap ship in my bomber i usully only use the strafe keys.
' Wrote:This has been something that's ticked me off ever since I started here, but seeing two bounty hunter battleships in the order guard system this week has pushed it over the edge. Things need to be changed, and it needs to happen as soon as the next mod version is released.
Changes:
1. Battleship Licenses
Battleship licenses need to be removed from all vendors and made available by admin approval only, like terrorist and specialty ID's (nomads,wild,etc). Battleships should only be given to player faction leaders, or experienced players who have proven their worth here - like Gafwmn, Isabelle Kaitlyn, and Au'rora (eternal). These players have shown that they have extremely good RP ability, and follow the rules and their zone of influence. The same cannot be said for 90% of the people out there using capships right now.
Independent players wishing to purchase battleships should be required to appeal to their player faction leader if one is available (for example, anyone wanting an outcast battleship/dreadnaught needs to talk to epyon). If there is no player faction for the battleship you want, you should be required to appeal directly to the admins by forum here, and only given the license after player feedback has been given supporting your reasons for using the ship.
This has been proposed before, many many times and rejected each time, specifically by Hoodlum who dismissed it out of hand, and added to that, there is simply not enough admins and they are not present enough to pass something like battleship liscences out - it would take forever. I've aways disagreed with the "Appeal to get a capship" call thats been made, partly because i started out quite early in a capship and it was the rules letting me get one freely that allowed me to do this. I believe, other players should have the same opportunity i did without hindrance or preassure - While i have no doubt the BH battleships sitting in your system were frustrating, its a fact of the game and the best response (in my opinion) is to RP around it, sanction them if they break a rule, or call if your friends in Bombers and take them out. Dont get me wrong, just sitting there "pew pew pew" at things as you suggested is not right and i dont agree with that, but neither do i agree with restricting their ships.
2. Battlecruisers
battlecruisers are currently the most exploited capship in the mod. People can get them for fairly cheap, without having to buy a battleship license, and a lot of RP enforced rules dont restrict battlecruisers (like the battleship ban in liberty). Personally I hate these things, they're not balanced at all compared to the other ship classes, and have the best of both worlds (cruisers and battleships).
I dont care if battlecruisers keep the 'battlecruiser' designation - but they need to be nerfed. Reduce their manuverability to battleship levels. I would prefer them having all class 10 turret hardpoints removed, but that would unfortunately force a player wipe so it cant be done.
If possible, reducing battlecruisers to a standard cruiser power core would work well, making those class 10 turrets really drain your energy.
I Wouldnt be nerfing anymore capships, they are nerfed enough - just my opinion
3. Guard Systems
All ships of cruiser level or higher should be available for purchase only in faction guard systems. This requires players to have a little better rep with the faction that sells these ships - and also requires players to ask permission to enter the system and use the ship from the player faction that owns that guard system (i.e. they'd be 'forced' to register the ship, any players who enter the system and purchase the ship without asking could be considered kill on sight for stealing an advanced and expensive vessel).
Right now it is simply too easy for any new player to the server to trade for a week and get a capship without knowing a thing about the rules, RP, or their faction restrictions. You see it every single day on the server and very little is done about it, as no server rules directly restrict that behavior.
While this has some merit i disagree with certain parts of it. I agree that having the ships in the guard systems would at least cause a player to have a better rep with the NPC faction mentioned - that is i think a good thing. However, forcing a player to register with a faction is something i do not agree with and thus, putting capships in guards systems controlled by players who are notoriously anti-capship anyway is going to make the system all too open for abuse. Battleships i would compromise on, but cruisers? i would think is going a bit far and handing too much power to faction leaders. IMO.
4. Bombers
Someone is bound to come up with "but bombers are more powerful than caps!"
They'd be right, bombers -are- more powerful. Right now bombers are the single most overpowered ship type in the mod, with more firepower capability through the supernova than any other ship. Most bombers also have enough agility and firepower to take on fighter class ships, making them the best all-around pvp vessels. They're also not all that expensive.
The easiest solution, as stated by jinx I believe, is to reduce or remove the strafe speed on bomber craft. If they cant strafe, it's much harder for them to avoid fire from enemy fighters. Strafing isnt as crucial for a bomber when fighting capships - all you have to do is get in close and engine kill to fly circles around the battleship, and it wont be able to target you in turret view.
Again, it'd be best if the weapon hardpoints could be altered, but that cant be done without a player wipe so the next best thing is removing strafe ability.
Completely agree with nerfing bombers. ( You would, i hear people say, you're a capship player) But.. hear me out. Bombers are way, WAY too powerful, the fact that two of them CAN take down a cruiser is insane, and a gunboat may as well not be there when faced with a half competent bomber. I have strong issues with nerfing or restricting capships as long as bombers remain as powerful and dominant as they are. You are not allowed to pirate in a capship.. but you are in a Bomber... has anyone seen how fast a bomber downs an advance train? While i understand the sentiment behind this rule in practicality it's meaningless. Nerf Bombers yes, then i would be open to looking at how capships are dealt with.
5. OORP Trade routes
one of the main reasons players can get such quick access to capships and other expensive items here is the existence of trade routes which, quite frankly, shouldnt exist. There are two routes in particular I'm concerned with:
1. The Cardamine smugglers in order space. The route for these guys is texas -> new york -> alaska -> omicron minor -> omicron 100 -> omicron major -> omicron 90 -> omicron alpha, then back. In order for a smuggler (who must have some sort of relation to outcasts to get cardamine) to run this route, he must pass through two of the most heavily guarded systems in the game according to RP - alaska (which most people shouldnt even be able to get into), and omicron 100 - the order guard system.
Further, the player must pass through two nomad systems to make the route, and that isnt something your average trader or smuggler is likely to put himself through.
In order to fix this route:
-Remove the omicron major to omicron 90 jump hole in the omicron major system.
The order really doesnt need a way to get into outcast space, and that's all that the jump hole in question would otherwise be used for. Keepers can travel directly from 99 to iota to get around the removal of that jump hole as well.
2. The diamond/niobium route, which I'm less familiar with, travels from new berlin to kyushu (I think). This route uses mostly jump holes which no lawful trader should be going through. It also passes through chugoku, the blood dragon home system, and that system is supposed to be kept hidden - how is it all these traders know about it?
In order to fix this route:
-Remove the sigma-13/new berlin jump holes.
This was brought up before, and I believe it was the bundschuh or red hessians who had a problem with it, as they use that jump hole to get between some of their systems (frankfurt and someplace else I believe, ill need input on this one). The solution they came up with was to put a jump hole for them from frankfurt to either new berlin or sigma 13, I cant remember which.
Actually, never using that Cardamine route i wouldn't know, but hey, if all the players in that area wanna make it disappear then why not. However, lawful traders using jumpholes i dont think is a terrible thing, especially indie lawful traders - its easy to see how an enterprising and risk taking person might choose to use a "Short cut"
That being said, going through a guard system is a bit much..... give the NPC's there train disruptors.. that would make things a lot more fun.
Trade routes as a whole need to be addressed - there needs to be more, not less. More viable routes on the server through brettonia and kusari etc etc to spread te traders out and bring some more life to the quiet areas of the map - now you can either remove all the "power" trading routes, or add more. I would personally add more, but make them longer. Despite popular misbelief, not everyone who plays a trader "power"trades to get capships - I "power" trade, to finance my own characters or as i usually do - to finance me making more characters.... i'm sure im not alone in this. I dont think people who play traders well should be punished for the actions of those who dont by removing their ability to make large sums of money. We want to keep up a steady number of players trading, that gives the server life and gives the pirates something else to do... id be careful about restricting some routes as it could have an adverse affect on the server community.
6. Guard system NPC's
The main reason traders and smugglers get through guard systems so easily is the fact that they use trains/advanced trains, which are nearly impossible to stop via standard cruise disruptors.
Solution: Give guard system NPC's train cruise disruptors, allowing them to stop these vessels.
---
Feedback on these suggestions is welcome, as well as other suggestions that might help solve the issue.
Also, before anyone goes on a Faction Vs. Indie rant, -ALL- of my characters are independents, and I'm firmly against joining factions. That doesnt mean that there shouldnt be more restrictions on ships by factions however. Factions have proven themselves through the sacrafice of a large amount of credits, a credible RP background, and good conduct by their players - they've been approved and made official by admins, which has to say something - and it says that they know what they're doing, or at least the faction leaders do.
All these things are true, except i strongly disagree with factions and faction leaders controlling a players ship choices.. i argued this the other day in that "thoughts" on capships thread, pretty well and i am too tired to try and type it up again... and, because im a noob, i dont know how to use the quote function more than once in a thread and from another thread as well.:)
First of all, CAPITAL SHIPS ARE NERFED ENOUGH
You dont want a fricken server with ALL bombers because if you keep nerfing capital ships they're just going to be useless and stupid because bombers will be able to take out everything, fighter and capital alike.
I do agree with battleships shooting things in front of manhattan, BUT FOR GOD SAKES DONT TAKE IT OUT ON ALL OF US. Some of us had bad experiences with clan/faction leaders in the past and having to apply for ships just is plain wrong... WHATS THE POINT OF PLAYING A GAME IF YOU CANT HAVE FUN.
Rejoicefully Eliminating Us Capwhores Nastily Inefficiently Omitting Non-Noobs
Cam, the only nerfs for battleships I suggested were for battlecruisers being reduced to cruiser power levels. There is -no- need whatsoever for an in-between that mixes all the strengths of a cruiser and battleship into one vessel, it's overpowered.
And I'm sorry you've had bad dealings with player factions before. So have I, and it's why I remain independent, but -most- faction leaders are respectful enough to let you use their ships as long as you prove that you can RP and dont act like a selfish jerk all the time.
If it could really be done I'd say have admins control capship purchasing, but a third party -has- to be there. The admins dont have enough time or patience to deal with every person who wants to use a capship - the factions can intermediate and monitor a player in-game to see if they're responsible enough to use the capship, and then allow them to purchase it.
It's the same deal right now with players who want to be phantoms, keepers, or wilde characters. The admins have to make the rep change, but they cant watch every player in the game who wants to join those groups - so the factions who run those groups are the ones who decide who joins and who doesnt, after observing their behavior in-game.
Actually I agree with everything you posted. Thank you for the recodnition towards me.
The BC is indeed a somewhat overpowered ship and thats mostly because it is avalable at a very low price. I would also suggest to move the BC price , wich is now around 200 + million to something like 500 + million. Doing this will prevent most new players from purchising a ship like that so easily.
I don't agree with you Tinkerbell, if the BS Licence is to drop when you are killed , then there will be no more BS's on the server. And some people (me for that matter) , enjoy Battleship RP and game play.
I think that there is no need for the Licence to be made "droppable" , Tenacity's suggestion towards the matter is by far better and briliant. It is something like this > A player power trades his way to a BS and then finaly gets his dreamed ship. "I'm gonna pwndz allz!" he says to himself , but with no RP story he can't even undock his ship. And if he undocks with no BS Licence , he is as good as sanctioned.
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