Staff Feedback Thread

[Greylock]

Why do you hate lawfuls?

Oh, is it because you want to pretend to adhere to some semblance of vanilla lore? In case you absolute donkeys haven't noticed, this isn't the vanilla game. Throwing RP that has been in place for years out the window just to show the middle finger to lawful IDs is off the scale retardation.

---

[Lemon]

Hmm LN lost ability to raid Vespucci, which has been a lot of fun

And Insurgency lost their own home system in Zoi
Within Zone of Influence (Liberty, systems directly bordering Liberty, Coronado, Hamburg, Inverness, Puerto Rico):

[Morosz]

Why the everliving hell did you do this? Are you people intentionally throwing us under the bus? Seriously what kind of mental gymnastics did you have to go through to justify this rule change? What is the honest reasoning behind this? Why not just delete all lawf enforcement factions by default and justify it iRP with: THe houses decided to defund their militaries and other law enforcement entities.

[Lythrilux]

I can agree with the sentiment to make non-House space more dangerous by adjusting House Lawful IDs, because the consequences they can enforce are powerful enough to discourage some types of RP completely, plus you can get banned from an entire region of the game just for playing your ID! But why have Independent Lawfuls been affected by the same brush? They're not part of this wider problem - there is just no way CR/GMG/Core can inflict consequences for law-breaking on the scale of a House. Was this even considered when these changes were done? I mean honestly even just looking at the announcement post, if I didn't go and double-check myself out of curiosity, it gives the impression that these changes are only for House lawfuls, as they seem to be the subject and context of the decision, and where the wider community has derived its grievances from. Is someone going to tell me Core is comparable to a House lol.

tl;dr I don't understand why Core ID has been nerfed/adjusted when House lawfuls are the problem here. This can complicate things the ID can do within it's own ZoI, for no real reason. Other independent lawfuls can enforce their stuff within almost their full ZoI still.

IDs for Comparisons Sake:

New

The Core is a ruthless quasi-state operating within the Edge Worlds, searching the region for alien artifacts, technology, and rare resources in the name of profit and power. The Core initiated a bloody war with many rogue elements in the Edge Worlds to gain passage to remote Nomad systems. Through conquest, The Core seeks to build an Empire out of the Edge Worlds region in their name.


This Independent ID is used by members of The Core who:


- Can attack any ship to protect allies.

- Can attack Alien and Order ships, or ships equipped with Alien or Order equipment.

- Can demand Kemwer Munitions and Alien Materials.

- Can enforce Core laws within the Omicrons.

- Cannot use any transports with more than 4,300 cargo.

- Cannot bring Cruisers or Battleships outside of their Zone of Influence.


Within ZOI (Omegas, Omicrons, Sigma-17, Sigma-19, Sigma-15, Sigma-21, Tohoku):

- Can attack ships belonging to factions considered hostile by The Core.

Old

Self-proclaimed the 'Protectors of Humanity', The Core is a paramilitary organization operating primarily within the Edge Worlds. They are relentless in their exploration of uncharted space in search of alien artifacts, technology and rare, untapped resources. The Core initiated a bloody war with The Order, Hessians, Corsairs and many other rogue elements in the Edge Worlds to gain passage to remote Nomad systems, becoming a dominant force in the Omicron and Omega sectors. Following this, The Core has setup mining operations within those sectors to help fuel their conquest. The Core seeks to establish an empire in Eastern Sirius out of the Edge Worlds region - the Imperium Omicronis - and will stop at nothing to see this goal come to fruition, no matter the cost.

The Core official ID is used by members of Core| who:

- Can attack any ship to protect allies.
- Can attack Alien and Order ships, or ships equipped with Alien or Order equipment.
- Can demand Kemwer Munitions and Alien items.
- Cannot use any transports with more than 4,300 cargo.

Within ZOI (Omegas, Omicrons, Sigma-17, Sigma-19, Sigma-15, Sigma-21, Tohoku, Exeter):
- Can attack ships belonging to factions considered hostile by The Core.
- Can enforce The Core laws.

Honestly, I'd rather have something where Intelligence IDs can still enforce/report consequences normally outside of House space, thus giving them a unique purpose and role, and an advantage over Navy and Police.

---

[Lemon]

@Lythrilux
Seems clear admins are trying to simplify things and make it clear where one law starts and other ends

Crayter
- Tau police
CORONADO IS NOT WHERE CRAYTER CAN ENFORCE LAWS NOW - THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDED TO CRAYTER ID

Core
- Omicron Police

GMG
- Sigmas Police

Nobody
- Omegas Police, because nobody plays them anyways
=> I think yes, Core could be given Omicrons and Omegas since there's nobody else can play cop and Core has a strong presence.

[Krumai]

Uh... isn't this supposed to be a democracy? People need to test their practicality before these changes are let out.

[Skorak]

Apart from a few kinks here and there and ZOIs that need adjusting. I really like this change. Brings back the BWs, IWs, EWs to what they should be.

Maybe this will help house law enforcement players rp better too considering many of them played like modern super powers that have everything under control.

---

[Saronsen]

I even asked in 3/21 if this was a ZOI change

[Lythrilux]

@Lythrilux
Seems clear admins are trying to simplify things and make it clear where one law starts and other ends

Crayter
- Tau police
CORONADO IS NOT WHERE CRAYTER CAN ENFORCE LAWS NOW - THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDED TO CRAYTER ID

Core
- Omicron Police

GMG
- Sigmas Police

Nobody
- Omegas Police, because nobody plays them anyways
=> I think yes, Core could be given Omicrons and Omegas since there's nobody else can play cop and Core has a strong presence.

Hmmm not really honestly. None of those groups can enforce laws on the magnitude of a House. They can't enforce the same type of consequences or big FR5 (multiple faction's bases vs a single faction's bases if you get FR5'd). Independent Lawfuls essentially enforce 'faux-laws' which truly are roleplay constructs that can be ignored by players and breaking them rewards lightweight consequences that don't ruin gameplay. At the very least none of this is consistent with the wider implications and considerations of what this change was supposed to achieve.

Some people say this change was done to give BHG more utility but I don't really see what kind of advantages they'll have over groups that can still collect bounties (not even mandatory) and do so in more ship classes.

---

[Saronsen]

Don't forget that Corsairs and Outcasts still have ZOI in 80-90% of all systems (For outcasts, all of the omicrons, sigmas, taus, Liberty, Kusari, Bretonia, most independent worlds, parts of gallia, etc) unrestricted, with no limitations to what they can do to other players and POBs beyond the generic rules, and can take caps to all of these systems too.

But I can only enforce the law in 8 systems as Liberty.

:^)