What about Barges?

[Chenzo-]

Let me clarify one thing, a Barge trading Helium and Helium- 3 makes a lot more than a 5ker trading Xeno Relics and Helium. You saying that a 5ker makes 100m/h more than a Barge is just factually wrong.

Have you ever flown a barge?

Have you ever flown a 5k Xeno Relic/H run?

go do those, then you will see.

Edit: Sorry for initial blunt message, however you also fail to see that a 5k ship can do the same run time and time again within the same time frame.

A barge run will sometimes be shorter(no disruptions) but the vast majority of the time be much longer.

A TL disruption in a 5k is no big deal, you can cruise to the next dock lane segment before the one which was knocked out is live again.

In a barge, a TL disruption is a genuine 10+ minute delay.

In other words, results are not maintainable in a barge.

you are straight up WRONG.

We run barges with Ore from Omega-11 to Stuttgart. Regardless what we do, we need to cross ~60k of open space + 9k of medium density asteroid field before taking lanes/gates.

The Barge consistently do 10,000-15,000 units more then a 5k for the same time investment. This has been consistent across multiple pilots, multiple months of doing it, multiple mining sessions. Even when factoring in delays due to lack of ore or NPC bumping.

I've never once put a barge through the space you talk about. I cann'y confirm or deny what you're saying.

Please get lane disrupted in the badlands of NY. This is what I'm on about as an example.

The asteroid fields in Coronado too..

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[Kherty]

[quote="Chenzo-" pid='2304489' dateline='1695849550']
[quote="L1ght" pid='2304488' dateline='1695848152']
Let me clarify one thing, a Barge trading Helium and Helium- 3 makes a lot more than a 5ker trading Xeno Relics and Helium. You saying that a 5ker makes 100m/h more than a Barge is just factually wrong.

-snip

you are straight up WRONG.

I've never once put a barge through the space you talk about. I cann'y confirm or deny what you're saying.

Two sentences who are know to be together, especially in situation that cells for them.

FYI: I have been tractred by the Glomar Response. I am not responsible in any way about what they are talking about. I am simply pointing out the obvious.

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[Mr.Jamison]

So, to end all the drama that will inevitably happen regardless of what is done or not done with the barge, once the credit remonetization has occurred and and a single character can safely hold the /value of a Barge, why not just make it so that those who no longer want the Barge can just /conn and sell (only) it there for a refund?

The benefits being something both sides want. The dissatisfied Barge owners can get their refunds which also results in the fewer Barges that it's haters want.

Or just make it known that abusing the privilege can simply result in your Barge being removed without refund.

This punishes the sinners alone for the sin of their Barge mis-usage without affecting those who use it responsibly.

Or, perhaps monitored Barge usage licensing where only those who act correctly can get equipment upgrades, Admin controlled like the Barge itself is already. Do it right, get it right. Do it poorly, suffer for your transgressions.

Only those who can show that they're up to the task are licensed to pilot supertankers. Here, we're just selling them on the showroom floor by comparison. And perhaps that's the problem.

Those who amassed the credits to buy a Barge have demonstrated that they fully understand the possibilities available in the use of a 5k transport. None of them need to be preached at regarding that. But many people rich enough to afford a Lamborghini only go on to prove that they're incapable of driving it responsibly and lose the PRIVILEGE of driving it on public roads.

Having the Barge should be treated as just that, a privilege. The money you spent is a secondary issue once you demonstrate an inability to use it responsibly.

Human nature is primarily governed by 2 things, Greed and Fear. Unless there is a consequence to fear, Greed wins every time.

So, it's come to the point where the Barge will be limited so that it doesn't outperform 5k's in money printing, thus making it no quicker in supply moving as a consequence. If that's what it takes, I can live with it I suppose. But this also robs those of who use it to supply bases of the real reason that WE wanted it enough to spend 15 billion, which is to spend less time slaving over base supplies and giving us more time to do the other things that make Disco worth doing.

Let's not pretend that this isn't a travesty. Some will be paying handsomely with their time for the money being denied the greedy.

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[Chenzo-]

[quote="Chenzo-" pid='2304489' dateline='1695849550']
[quote="L1ght" pid='2304488' dateline='1695848152']
Let me clarify one thing, a Barge trading Helium and Helium- 3 makes a lot more than a 5ker trading Xeno Relics and Helium. You saying that a 5ker makes 100m/h more than a Barge is just factually wrong.

-snip

you are straight up WRONG.

I've never once put a barge through the space you talk about. I cann'y confirm or deny what you're saying.

Two sentences who are know to be together, especially in situation that cells for them.

FYI: I have been tractred by the Glomar Response. I am not responsible in any way about what they are talking about. I am simply pointing out the obvious.

Thank you for confirming you can make a point out of context to mean nothing?

I’m curious to know the credit profit per run Prysin is on about, also how long the trade run takes.

I also love how you, light and others will stand up to rally a point of maybe a minor miscalculation really hard whilst ignoring the really hard points which alone render this whole ‘discussion’ valueless;

1- The barge at BEST is 7x slower than a 5k- This is before you take being bumped 10k/50k away by NPC's which in turn takes around 30 minutes EACH TIME at minimum to correct, ergo, much slower again.
- A trade lane disruption is a minimum additional ten minute delay each time.
- If for any reason you don't shoot the lane behind you as you exit, a NPC will spin you for sure.
- If you do not successfully get back on to the trade lane before NPC's start spamming through them when it comes live again, you will be stuck there at the mercy of crusing to the next gate anyway. You will be repeatedly spun by passing NPC's going through the lanes.
- Lord only help you for how many hours you are stuck if a trade lane is disrupted in a asteroid field.

2- Pirates have a field day when they come across you, because you are entirely defenceless. it's a guaranteed payday or bluemessage. In a barge trading whatever commodity, you are running 6x the risk, there isn't a 6x reward, there is a 0.9x reward vs a 5k. I fly this ship for fun.

Point one may prove my claims wrong with factual figures from @Prysin on his credit spinner, can we have the numbers? If so nerfing the barge may indeed be necessary.

My second point made originally is unshakable. You run 6x the risk without 6x the reward.
Totally defenceless against attack despite CAU/Battleship shield. A sitting duck.

TLDR; need input from @Prysin to see if his run makes more than Xeno Relics/Helium.

Actually flying the barge through the system hazards makes it take 7x longer at best than a 5k for a full run.

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[sasapinjic]

Oh and one thing that people sleep on is the anti-bump buff. From what I've heard, being bumped out of the way is one of the most dreaded things Barge players experience, and knowing you cannot be flipped around by a random enemy NPC is a huge bonus.

I proposed bumping ships solution 4 years ago, by enabling that if smaller ships bump with bigger ones, they will suffer direct hull damage,more diference in size,more damage,with fighters size ships colliding with capital ships will result in instant killes , which wuld eliminate npc fighters bumping in to big ships ballon effect, but it was rejected by fear all those big and slow battleships players will purposly rammed all those fast and agile fighters players (that you can hardly hit even with solaris) lol.
Am glad sombady in developer team will finaly solve baloon problem.

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[Stewgar]

no one stops you from hosting your own server with said changes if you disagree with them

Sentiment like that is why we have such a low player count. This "my way or the highway" mentality amongst players and staff is both lazy and anchoring the community.

Now, I'm not going to sit here and brainstorm for hours on which scenario to best fit what is going on here that doesn't have 1 hole in it. I don't argue semantics, I don't have the time. To paint with a broad brush, a car manufacturer that changes things after a purchase has been made will, at the very least, diminish the trust that consumers have in that manufacturer. The same principle applies here. An asset has been purchased with currency, in this case Sirius Credits, and a good has been provided (digital but is still a good). The good (barge) is being altered after the transaction has taken place. Therefore, to some (if not most people), the value of their good no longer equates to the original currency they applied for their good. To maintain trust and confidence in the community, a team should think about the ramifications of their actions and how to mitigate any loss of trust and confidence. So far there has been no talks about this. Therefore, players are continuing to lose trust and confidence in this community and will either no longer play or, funny you should mention this one, create their own community.

It's very simple if you think about it from all sides, not just one.

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It ain't about what you are capable of, it's about what you're willing to do.

[Couden]

A valid argument and change for barges would be turning them into Bustards.

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[LuckyOne]

One future path for the Barge could be to turn it into a 2 player ship: the Pilot (or Navigator) and the Barge driver. Barge would be unable to use TLs but have high cargo capacity, while the Pilot could use a fast 425 / 450 speed ship that would enable the Barge to form up on it and go faster than its regular cruising speed.

The math would have to check out in such a way that using this setup would be worth more than using two 5kers cruising at the regular 350 speed, so it would be quite profitable for the Barge owner, enough to pay the Pilot just over the regular 5ker rate.

Of course, in systems with infrastructure present using a 5ke would still be more profitable than the Barge duo.

[Mr.Jamison]

One future path for the Barge could be to turn it into a 2 player ship: the Pilot (or Navigator) and the Barge driver. Barge would be unable to use TLs but have high cargo capacity, while the Pilot could use a fast 425 / 450 speed ship that would enable the Barge to form up on it and go faster than its regular cruising speed.

The math would have to check out in such a way that using this setup would be worth more than using two 5kers cruising at the regular 350 speed, so it would be quite profitable for the Barge owner, enough to pay the Pilot just over the regular 5ker rate.

Of course, in systems with infrastructure present using a 5ke would still be more profitable than the Barge duo.

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[Mr.Jamison]

One future path for the Barge could be to turn it into a 2 player ship: the Pilot (or Navigator) and the Barge driver. Barge would be unable to use TLs but have high cargo capacity, while the Pilot could use a fast 425 / 450 speed ship that would enable the Barge to form up on it and go faster than its regular cruising speed.

The math would have to check out in such a way that using this setup would be worth more than using two 5kers cruising at the regular 350 speed, so it would be quite profitable for the Barge owner, enough to pay the Pilot just over the regular 5ker rate.

Of course, in systems with infrastructure present using a 5ke would still be more profitable than the Barge duo.

OOPS!!


I would say that if this idea were implemented, make it so that the Barge cannot use lanes alone, but could follow a "pilot ship" into lanes when grouped with it. Like tugs guiding a ship in tight spaces.

It would increase RP while giving the Barge to ability to move with convoys rather than always running alone, and an entire convoy having to chug along at Barge speed prevents them from participating otherwise.

And it seems to me that the implementation of POB refineries would make Barges valuable to their efficient use.

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