Community Feedback: Helium-3 Mining

[g18em2b]

Traders can buy H-Fuel from Gas Miner Naha and make 50K/min. The mining rate of Helium-3 is 10 units/s (tested on a Kishiro Arrastra). That's 600 He/min. No self respecting miner would even start mining knowing they will make less than 100K/min. This means a miner who knows their worth will charge 167 per unit mined. Since the hauler and the miner usually go 50-50, the PoB must buy the Helium-3 at 334. Of course, if your mining rate is higher, you can charge less per unit mined. But this doesn't change the numbers substantially.

Questions:

• How can a PoB sell H-FUel cheaper than Gas Miner Naha ($60) if they have to buy Helium-3 from miners?
  
• Why would anyone mine if they will earn less than an NPC trader?
  

[Aingar]

Economy is very much work in progress, and has been mentioned as such as early as Patch When #3 - Master Economic Plan.
Our econ devs are updating the buy/sell points for various commodities daily, and in the next hotfix that I hope will be very very soon, you will see an incremental change, definitely for the better.

[Nika]

Frankly speaking, I have not seen much of current economy but it gives about the impression it was presented as: barebones. There is very few routes (all seem oddly revolving around Gold from Dublin) which generated an inadequate amount of people running various commodities to Foyle and in turn, draws in an equally inadequate amount of pirates. Being stared down by a snub, a gunboat, two cruisers and two battlecruisers who join a piracy encounter throughout it is rather unsettling (It's a one to a thousand encounter and they were just in transit across system in the same direction as me, but still).

So two things economy needs now is diversity of routes and adding more commodities, in my opinion, as I totally see no need to axe so much stuff that added roleplay flavor on a roleplay server - starting with commodities that have significant player roleplay or player requests (or both) behind them.

We can but wait and hope that current state of economy is actually just WIP and won't stay that way.

[Aingar]

To reiterate the way new econ is done: Haste wrote a script that grabs the input file, and outputs a ready file readable by the game containing the prices and buy/sell flags.
The input file contains bases and commodities that are produced/consumed/resold there.

The job of Econ is to populate that input file in a way that makes sense. This sounds easy compared to how it was done in the past, but please consider that we started with a BLANK slate. And with 91 commodities currently used in the economy, and 392 bases spread across 82 systems, populating it SUFFICIENTLY is going to simply take a while. We will get there, but those will be incremental changes enriching the economy over time. The current version is very much barebones, and both myself and Econ devs agree, but the work is being done to populate it as I'm typing this post.

We hope to get you the next version as soon as possible.

[Nika]

To reiterate the way new econ is done: Haste wrote a script that grabs the input file, and outputs a ready file readable by the game containing the prices and buy/sell flags.
The input file contains bases and commodities that are produced/consumed/resold there.

The job of Econ is to populate that input file in a way that makes sense. This sounds easy compared to how it was done in the past, but please consider that we started with a BLANK slate. And with 91 commodities currently used in the economy, and 392 bases spread across 82 systems, populating it SUFFICIENTLY is going to simply take a while. We will get there, but those will be incremental changes enriching the economy over time. The current version is very much barebones, and both myself and Econ devs agree, but the work is being done to populate it as I'm typing this post.

We hope to get you the next version as soon as possible.

I don't expect momentary results and will actually be happy if work on it proceeds in due pace and without excessive pressure on people working on it, thus decreasing the likelyhood of awkward errors.

And I actually appreciate the fact that staff are no longer afraid to open up to community, and the transparency that it entails. That's a lot compared to before. And it's great.

[Mr.Jamison]

IMO, this economy rework which integrates POB's is a great idea and much needed.

As a veteran Disco player whose RP has always been that of a life-long Ores, Metals and Scrap hauling businessman, the possibilities that it presents is exciting.

I'm not inexperienced in FL economy modding, but it's been a long while.
As such, I can appreciate the work being done and the people doing it. The Economizer sounds brilliant. But, as always, the devil is in the details.

This is not a gripe, as I know that these things take time. However, the mod is kind of in Limbo while these changes continue to coalesce.

Also the decision to make a substance which is mandatory to the building of refineries a mineable commodity only available in the Uncharted systems, the inclusion of some pretty viscious Gas Cloud and Rad fields in and around mining areas and their access jump holes, as well as having another much needed commodity like Silver locked behind Unstable jump holes which prevent the use of transports are some curious inclusions for which I, as one, would like to hear the reasoning.

Maybe it will all make sense when the economy is completed, but these currently have me rather puzzled.

Additionally, it seems that the capitol ship changes have been made to "make things more competitive" and "give traders & escorts a chance" essentially mean that Disco is now a mandatory RP/PvP server rather than an RP server which also has PvP, and that all future attempts to Convoy these necessary POB supplies will always be subject to the resident group of Disco lolwut Aces who maintain ships (frequently including Caps) in multiple unlawful factions and whom routinely counterlog trader convoys and engage in what at least borders on Griefing.

As much as I have hope for this patch and it's possibilities, these are things that concern me looking forward.

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[Sava]

So two things economy needs now is diversity of routes and adding more commodities, in my opinion, as I totally see no need to axe so much stuff that added roleplay flavor on a roleplay server - starting with commodities that have significant player roleplay or player requests (or both) behind them.

This is a very debatable statement.
More diversity leads to bigger variety of choices and more evenly distributed playerbase, yes.
At the same time, popular locations and preferable routes lead to player concentration and provide ground for competitive gameplay.
Both are important and have to be considered and balanced for more people to enjoy the game.

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